Power Vision Information Thread
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
Pretty sure this is normal, happens to me also. When the PV sets up the tune for auto tuning it changes your AFR to 14.6 across the board. The bike will be running lean while autotuning.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,791
Likes: 57
From: N Texas
I would think to go to O2 sensors I would all so have to replace the ECM which would increase the price a lot.
Hopefully in the near future I will be rebuilding my engine my self. I have been building HD motors as well as doing the machine work for about 40 years. Only thing I will not do is balance, true, plug and weld crank.
I have a 02 Ultra with a 06 Harley sidecar. I am looking for low end toque with better fuel mileage. I will be putting a Harley 4 3/8 crank, S&S 509 cams, boring out the throttle body from 43mm to 48mm with S&S Quiet tour mufflers and SE breather.
Thanks
Jeff
Hopefully in the near future I will be rebuilding my engine my self. I have been building HD motors as well as doing the machine work for about 40 years. Only thing I will not do is balance, true, plug and weld crank.
I have a 02 Ultra with a 06 Harley sidecar. I am looking for low end toque with better fuel mileage. I will be putting a Harley 4 3/8 crank, S&S 509 cams, boring out the throttle body from 43mm to 48mm with S&S Quiet tour mufflers and SE breather.
Thanks
Jeff
Hey pauly3, sounds like you just changed your ac and pipes so you will need to start over with the Autotuning, the two Autotunes with the old set up probably don't help you any. I think the map you have should be good to start with because both set ups sound simular. Get at least 3 Autotunes in before trying anything else.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 3,791
Likes: 57
From: N Texas
First, you have a completely Open Loop set up - you have no AFRs in the 14.3 to 15.0 range to be in Closed Loop. Some people choose to stay in OL, so long as you know this and want it, you should be OK. My AFR/Lambda table from Fuel Moto has me in CL from roughly 27-80 MAP and idle to 3500 RPM. You can see my table on post #3642 of this thread.
Second, The values in the 20 MAP column may be on the lean side. If after the 3 Autotunes you still get decel pop, you could start by lowering the values from 14.0 to 12.9 - that would match my Lamda value of .884 that I got from FM. Jamie from FM recommends doing this from 1750-5000 rpms from his post # 3615 - please read.
If you still have decel pop after that, you could look at your Deceleration Enleanment chart and lower it by maybe 10%. I am showing my table for you to compare to yours:
Last edited by HD Pilot; Jan 28, 2013 at 09:03 PM. Reason: Changed pages to post #s
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 11
From: The Whale's Vagina
Makes sense, thanks for the reply.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 11
From: The Whale's Vagina
Basic Autotune Procedure
Another question about Autotune Basic:
After each session, I export the learned values to a slot on my PV, then flash that tune. The next session will be from that new tune.
Once every few sessions, I upload the tune to Win PV and compare it to the previous sessions to be sure something is actually happening.
I've read here where Jamie and others recommend running at least 3 sessions, but don't understand if that means 3 sessions before exporting learned values into a new tune, or if that means 3 times of what I'm doing now.
How are you guys applying the learned values?
After each session, I export the learned values to a slot on my PV, then flash that tune. The next session will be from that new tune.
Once every few sessions, I upload the tune to Win PV and compare it to the previous sessions to be sure something is actually happening.
I've read here where Jamie and others recommend running at least 3 sessions, but don't understand if that means 3 sessions before exporting learned values into a new tune, or if that means 3 times of what I'm doing now.
How are you guys applying the learned values?
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 716
Likes: 10
From: Shreveport,La
I did another data log today with my what I think is my final AT map. I am now getting Deltas of 5% or less in all cells.
However my last data log on a regular ride, no Auto Tune, showed spark knock events on both Cly's at different times. The numbers were .5 to 2. Does that mean the ecm added .5 to 2*? Would it have a - sign in front of the number if it retarded the timing?
However my last data log on a regular ride, no Auto Tune, showed spark knock events on both Cly's at different times. The numbers were .5 to 2. Does that mean the ecm added .5 to 2*? Would it have a - sign in front of the number if it retarded the timing?
Last edited by Watchfuliz; Jan 28, 2013 at 06:25 PM.
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
From: Charlotte, NC
Another question about Autotune Basic:
After each session, I export the learned values to a slot on my PV, then flash that tune. The next session will be from that new tune.
Once every few sessions, I upload the tune to Win PV and compare it to the previous sessions to be sure something is actually happening.
I've read here where Jamie and others recommend running at least 3 sessions, but don't understand if that means 3 sessions before exporting learned values into a new tune, or if that means 3 times of what I'm doing now.
How are you guys applying the learned values?
After each session, I export the learned values to a slot on my PV, then flash that tune. The next session will be from that new tune.
Once every few sessions, I upload the tune to Win PV and compare it to the previous sessions to be sure something is actually happening.
I've read here where Jamie and others recommend running at least 3 sessions, but don't understand if that means 3 sessions before exporting learned values into a new tune, or if that means 3 times of what I'm doing now.
How are you guys applying the learned values?
After 4 auto tune runs, my bike seems to be running damn near perfect. Really couldn't be happier with the Power Vision.
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If you are limiting your RPM range to 4000 RPM there is not a way to get a full tune, as you need to collect data over a specific area of the calibration before you can populate tune corrections for those cells.
As far as decel popping I would go into the AFR/Lambda table in the far left column and from 1750-5000 RPM's richen it by .5 AFR (or the Lambda equivalent) You can also lower the decel enleanment slightly, however if you are running a FM calibration that is already likely very low. Before adjusting for decel popping I would make sure your base tune is where it should be, especially on a new build. I would first run three 20 minute sessions and accept the learned corrections, when the tune is where it should be then go after the decel popping.
As far as decel popping I would go into the AFR/Lambda table in the far left column and from 1750-5000 RPM's richen it by .5 AFR (or the Lambda equivalent) You can also lower the decel enleanment slightly, however if you are running a FM calibration that is already likely very low. Before adjusting for decel popping I would make sure your base tune is where it should be, especially on a new build. I would first run three 20 minute sessions and accept the learned corrections, when the tune is where it should be then go after the decel popping.
Should I:
1. Load Base Map
2. Enable AutoTune
3. Ride 20 minutes 3 different times
4. Export Learned
5. Save
6. Flash to ECM
or Should I:
1. Load Base Map
2. Enable AutoTune
3. Ride 20 minutes
4. Export Learned
5. Save
6. Flash to ECM
- And then repeat steps 2-6 a couple more times?
Sorry for the basic questions and I'm sure it's already been asked but I'm very new to this and still learning!!!
Also does anyone have a similar setup to mine that they can screenshot and post on here?
Here is my AFR:
Here is my DE:
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 531
Likes: 4
From: Chile Flats, AZ
Not Here
My response is decel popping does not happen with my machine; neither during autotuning or datalogging.
Don't ask me why it does not, it just doesn't. I have no decel popping whether tuning or not; and never have from the time the rebuild was done and the PV added; with one exception: I tried another map that was quite different and it would not run right at all -- quickly dumped that map.
The reason is tried the 'odd map' was that the one on the machine put there by the builder with the PV install was not right either; but comparing the original map with several of comparable equipment from the DJ site, I noticed where I needed to make some changes and after I did that and began doing the autotunes and datalogging runs, the thing dials in quite nicely.
I've tried a couple different sets of exhause systems I have just for the fun of it and again, a few tuning runs and it dialed right in.
I know this was not of much help to your situation, but I did want to respond to let you know that at least for me, I've not experienced what you described.
Good luck.