Power Vision Information Thread
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 64
Likes: 1
From: KY
A couple of AT process questions. So i load a tune under AT and data log. Export learned and save to a slot. Then I have to flash that new file in AT and data log and export. Otherwise, I would just be just getting one AT on the original tune over and over. In other words, it does not export learned to the ecm. Right? I think I wasted a few runs by not flashing the file.
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 523
Likes: 1
From: kingston ontario
Won't do you much good. What elevation are you at compared to where another map was created? What gas was used in the map you're comparing to? How exact is the build? How good was the tuner? At best all you'll be doing is comparing your good tuned map to a starter map, right? I'm not following what you'll be looking for between the two.
starter maps are exactly what i want to compare, i found it interesting to compare my stock to the dj map (before my 2-1 exhaust).
i want to see the differences, if any, between the maps... spark, afr, what switches are on or off... pretty much all the tables.
i wont lose any sleep if i dont see a comparison, just a curiosity thing
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 523
Likes: 1
From: kingston ontario
My question would be why bring everything up into a huge mound, rather than bringing down the high areas. The objective is to get the chart as flat as possible, not as high as possible. I would have tried to bring the low up a little and the surrounding highs down, to flatten that region. The flatter the chart looks the tighter the VE's will be. The tighter the VE's are the smoother the engine will feel. Just food for thought.
The next thing to look at would be the VE tables. How do the numbers flow? How the VE numbers flow is more important than the graph. The graph, in my eyes, is meaningless, and can easily lead someone to screw up a tune.
It's very easy to have nice flowing VE's from top to bottom. And, at the same time have VE's that refuse to play well going from left to right. Once the CDE is changed and it affects the VE's going left to right it also changes the VE's (in the affected grouping of cells) going up and down. So, what I'm saying is that the VE table is what you need to be looking at when playing with CDE values.
Basically, what we're trying to accomplish is to flatten out the cells from 60 kPa and lower. It's pretty difficult to determine exactly where those cells are with PV because it hasn't evolved enough to pinpoint for us where that 60 kPa line is.
The area I'm referring to is the upper left quarter of the table. If someone tries to flatten outside of that region it's going to make a pretty dorked up VE table because CDE doesn't do much out there. But on the otherhand, it makes pretty substantial changes to the upper left quarter.
The next thing to look at would be the VE tables. How do the numbers flow? How the VE numbers flow is more important than the graph. The graph, in my eyes, is meaningless, and can easily lead someone to screw up a tune.
It's very easy to have nice flowing VE's from top to bottom. And, at the same time have VE's that refuse to play well going from left to right. Once the CDE is changed and it affects the VE's going left to right it also changes the VE's (in the affected grouping of cells) going up and down. So, what I'm saying is that the VE table is what you need to be looking at when playing with CDE values.
Basically, what we're trying to accomplish is to flatten out the cells from 60 kPa and lower. It's pretty difficult to determine exactly where those cells are with PV because it hasn't evolved enough to pinpoint for us where that 60 kPa line is.
The area I'm referring to is the upper left quarter of the table. If someone tries to flatten outside of that region it's going to make a pretty dorked up VE table because CDE doesn't do much out there. But on the otherhand, it makes pretty substantial changes to the upper left quarter.
now we are talking!!
the wizard gave me a little info about stock cams here https://www.hdforums.com/forum/11374594-post3879.html
from that i gathered i may need to do exactly what you just posted... knock down the highs and maybe raise the lows a little.
you have given me more info in this post and for that i am grateful as it does help me to understand this subject.
as i said before, i am not concerned with a pretty graph and i can see how easy it would be to screw up a good tune by making changes based on the appearance of the 3d graph (i am trying to avoid being one of those guys)
i think (and may be wrong) that i can use my logs to help find that 60kpa line.
making the actual changes to the cde table is a little confusing as the only option we have are pressure values (is that correct?) per rpm.
if i see a "spike" in my ve's should i try to determine what rpm range the spike is in and then lower the value in the cde table for that rpm range?
tts has more documentation on this subject but i think (correct me if i am wrong) the tools being used are/work different than the pv so i am hesitant to spend much time studying the tts info on this matter.
looking at my ve tables for spikes, studying my logs to find the ve/tps/kpa relations in the hopes of learning what cde/rpm value to alter (or not alter) is indeed a bit of work.
the only other person i have seen play with this subject basically raised the lows to meet the highs. i gather it was a short experiment between weather and a cam change.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,590
Likes: 31
From: Western Illinois, land of bad roads, and corrupt politicians
A couple of AT process questions. So i load a tune under AT and data log. Export learned and save to a slot. Then I have to flash that new file in AT and data log and export. Otherwise, I would just be just getting one AT on the original tune over and over. In other words, it does not export learned to the ecm. Right? I think I wasted a few runs by not flashing the file.
Use 2 slots and alternate them for the export/load.
Helpful hint. When you are satisfied........ dump the final tune into WinPV and rename it to something you recognize.
I have one called everyday.pvt, one called highway.pvt, and one called crapgas.pvt (that one is for 87 octane/10% corn)
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 78
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Maps for Education
Hi guys,
I think it would be great for everyone who is trying to tune their bikes if they would post screen shots of their before and after results on their tune.
Nothing real fancy or over detailed just tell about your bike, year model and any mods that you have done. Then post the screenshots of your VE's, ARF's And Timing (total of 4 screenshots) explaining where they came from or how they were achieved. If possible, before and after screenshots would really be great with a short explanation of what you did then everybody could see and understand how and why the changes were made, whether for good or bad.
With these screenshots it would really help all the members get pointed in the right direction and keep them from making really bad Maps for their bikes. Kinda like a starting and ending blueprint to help keep the guys in the ballpark.
Remember a picture is worth a thousand words.
Take care.
I think it would be great for everyone who is trying to tune their bikes if they would post screen shots of their before and after results on their tune.
Nothing real fancy or over detailed just tell about your bike, year model and any mods that you have done. Then post the screenshots of your VE's, ARF's And Timing (total of 4 screenshots) explaining where they came from or how they were achieved. If possible, before and after screenshots would really be great with a short explanation of what you did then everybody could see and understand how and why the changes were made, whether for good or bad.
With these screenshots it would really help all the members get pointed in the right direction and keep them from making really bad Maps for their bikes. Kinda like a starting and ending blueprint to help keep the guys in the ballpark.
Remember a picture is worth a thousand words.
Take care.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 55
From: Londonderry, NH
starter maps are exactly what i want to compare, i found it interesting to compare my stock to the dj map (before my 2-1 exhaust).
i want to see the differences, if any, between the maps... spark, afr, what switches are on or off... pretty much all the tables.
i wont lose any sleep if i dont see a comparison, just a curiosity thing
i want to see the differences, if any, between the maps... spark, afr, what switches are on or off... pretty much all the tables.
i wont lose any sleep if i dont see a comparison, just a curiosity thing
I have both stage1 and stage2 maps from Fuel Moto and there's not a huge difference.
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
There's no reason to run 47* of timing anywhere. I would drop them all down to 43 or so and make 43 your highest number in every cell that was higher than 43.
As far as gas goes if someone does alot of touring they should tune using a mid-grade fuel. For someone that gets his/her in the same locale tune with gas you use regularly. Either way the system will creat a knock profile for knock events just like it does for AFV's. the difference is that the knock profile will zero out, or close to it, at key off.
As far as gas goes if someone does alot of touring they should tune using a mid-grade fuel. For someone that gets his/her in the same locale tune with gas you use regularly. Either way the system will creat a knock profile for knock events just like it does for AFV's. the difference is that the knock profile will zero out, or close to it, at key off.
I stand corrected....46 deg. is the most advanced timing i have. I have not made any changes to the timing. It is as it came from fuelmoto. I emailed jamie and asked some timing questions. His reply was my map has fairly aggressive timing. That is where im getting that from. And i certainly believe him. I have no idea what is considered agressive as far as timing and what is not. I would have to think that jamie,s maps are all pretty close so again i am just assuming....they are all fairly agressive timing. maybe im dead wrong. i have seen only a few of his maps. Every one of them i have seen have timing up at 46 deg in areas.
Jim... your right. i should have done a tune for crappy gas but i didnt. I do go out and about and i am sure i will run into the crappy gas again. So i will certainly consider filling the tank with lower octain gas and starting another AT for lower octaine i might run into. Dont know why i never thought of that. Just never crossed my mind. I have seen a few posts from people that have done that.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,357
Likes: 8
From: Pa
I have now made a bunch of auto tune runs and had a few questions. I reviewed a tune from dyno jet and have made 4 auto tune runs on that tune. I wanted to see the changes by going to my pc, loading the original tune and then the compaire tune from the last auto tune run. Well i see no changes at all. I click on delta, which show the difference and nothing. On my 3rd auto tune run it said Learned ve cells average -1% max -9%. On the 4th run it says -2% max -15%. Now that is on the pv itself. I loaded both of those on my pc through win pv and i see no changes at all. The attatched pics are the last auto tune run.
Last edited by pontiac69; Jun 14, 2013 at 07:17 PM.
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Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 120
Likes: 3
From: Corona, CA.
Bump?
Sure would appreciate some Log Tuner help guys....
Somebody?
Anybody???
Sure would appreciate some Log Tuner help guys....
Somebody?
Anybody???
I could really use some help gettin' started w/ Log Tuner.
I have a '12 Fat Bob...
So, am I AFR or Lambda? I've read that non TBW bikes are AFR. But I don't see any AFR settings on my PV's log config page. (below)
I'm prolly not understanding what the acronyms mean.
I am not seeing Warmup AFR (or Lambda), Acceleration Enrichment, or Desired AFR/Lambda.
And the Log Tuner S/W will not create a tune without them. I keep getting a flag that these channels are missing from my imported log.
Thanks much fellas.
And frankly, I'd give my left nut just to see a list of what the more cryptic things mean.... B+, CLI, AFF, IAT, IAC, O2V, and VSS.
Attachment 319441
Attachment 319442
I have a '12 Fat Bob...
So, am I AFR or Lambda? I've read that non TBW bikes are AFR. But I don't see any AFR settings on my PV's log config page. (below)
I'm prolly not understanding what the acronyms mean.
I am not seeing Warmup AFR (or Lambda), Acceleration Enrichment, or Desired AFR/Lambda.
And the Log Tuner S/W will not create a tune without them. I keep getting a flag that these channels are missing from my imported log.
Thanks much fellas.
And frankly, I'd give my left nut just to see a list of what the more cryptic things mean.... B+, CLI, AFF, IAT, IAC, O2V, and VSS.
Attachment 319441
Attachment 319442
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
Not sure why you don't want to use the Autotune feature. There was a code we used to use (319245) in the pre-autotune days that would set the parameters you needed. It's a lot easier then selecting each different item. Now, if you enter that code, I believe it brings you to the autotune screen.