Power Vision Information Thread
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
Thanks Stailjim61, Thats what I needed to hear. Still being new to this process I wasnt sure but my gut just told me 44-45-46 was pretty high,and adding more just to log knock to then let LT lower it seemed like the only way to find out how high it can go safely.I did lower the tables and still waiting for FM's reply and hopefully a corrected calc. all I wanted was a little smoother take off and crisp throttle response. I was ATing at the time I got a lot of Knock events trying to hit lower RPM higher Kpa cells. they just didnt show up in the Data log after flashing the new tune. BTW I always use non-ethanol gas, If Im going out of my area I look up where to get good gas on http://pure-gas.org and plan my route accordingly.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Your post just answered every one of my questions regarding Log Tuner and timing. The instructions on fuelmoto's page left a lot out, assuming I guess that we already knew most of this stuff.
I did a bunch of auto tuning over the weekend and had one run that was +9%, but the rest were all < 3%, so I decided to take the leap and start messing with spark. After reading your post, the light went off in my head. I made (4) 15-20 logs of my current map today during my commute and just ran them through LT. Turns out I had some knock events in the front cylinder.
Now for the scary part (for me). I'm a little nervous about messing with timing. My calc shows that less than 1* of timing will be removed across the 3K band at 80, 90, and 95 KPa (screen shot attached).
Is that typical? Am I heading in the right direction? (Yes, I need reassurance.
)
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
I too had lots of decel popping a while back and tried messing with the decel enleanment. It helped, but not much.
I ended up emailing a copy of my map to Dynojet and asking for help. They sent me back a map with the timing advanced in the 15, 20, and 30 KPa columns of the spark tables. Problem solved (mostly). I still get an occasional pop between 1st and 2nd gear, but it's rare.
I recommend contacting Dynojet support for help with your popping. Their support is pretty awesome. They updated my map 3 times until the popping was gone.
I ended up emailing a copy of my map to Dynojet and asking for help. They sent me back a map with the timing advanced in the 15, 20, and 30 KPa columns of the spark tables. Problem solved (mostly). I still get an occasional pop between 1st and 2nd gear, but it's rare.
I recommend contacting Dynojet support for help with your popping. Their support is pretty awesome. They updated my map 3 times until the popping was gone.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
No. It will only display what the ECM sees. The closest you can get for temp is the front jug sensor.
Unplug them under the side cover. Not sure how moisture might affect the connectors, so just throw a plastic bag over the connectors with a rubber band to protect them.
Unplug them under the side cover. Not sure how moisture might affect the connectors, so just throw a plastic bag over the connectors with a rubber band to protect them.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Same here. Once I had the VE's dialed in on the last on we added 4 or 5* to some areas. I think they've been doing this long enough to know better.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 11
From: The Whale's Vagina
Thanks, but I don't understand the 2* safety margin. Can you explain or point me to a link?
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Thanks Stailjim61, Thats what I needed to hear. Still being new to this process I wasnt sure but my gut just told me 44-45-46 was pretty high,and adding more just to log knock to then let LT lower it seemed like the only way to find out how high it can go safely.I did lower the tables and still waiting for FM's reply and hopefully a corrected calc. all I wanted was a little smoother take off and crisp throttle response. I was ATing at the time I got a lot of Knock events trying to hit lower RPM higher Kpa cells. they just didnt show up in the Data log after flashing the new tune. BTW I always use non-ethanol gas, If Im going out of my area I look up where to get good gas on http://pure-gas.org and plan my route accordingly.
Well what you desribed sounded more like a hardware/software glitch and nothing related to the tune. 4* less timing and more knock? I'm sure the boys at FM or DJ will get you squared away.
That's correct. Adding timing until it pings kind of tells where that threshold is. Does someone really NEED to know what that magic number is? Nope. I could take 3 maps, make timing changes to each of them. Let you ride the bike. And I'll bet you or anyone else in here couldn't tell me what map had what changes. Some people like to run at the ragged edge. Some (me included) just have too much time on their hands and like to tinker. But when the smoke clears, there's nobody running AT's and tweaking timing that can put anything measurable on the changes. There's just no way to measure it. So, what we do is this. Get the engine to feel its smoothest with no pinging, and feel nice and peppy. And that's about the best anyone can expect from a street tune. I find these engines to run smoother with less timing. There may be a few hp and a few ft/lbs of torque lost, but nobody will ever feel it. What they will feel is a smooth running bike. I wouldn't get too carried away with the timing numbers. The bottom line really is just this...Are you happy with the way the bike runs and is it set up to not destroy itself.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
You never want to leave it right at the threshold of where it will ping. Temps change, fuel grades change. What happens one day when you or someone else runs into a 5* grade and its a mile to the top. It just happens to be hot as heck outside and the last time you had to fill up didn't have premium at the pumps. Do you listen to it ping all the way up the hill? Better yet, do you want it to ping all the way up the hill? Pinging will destroy a motor in a matter of minutes if it's bad enough. So the smart thing to do is build in a safety margin for when unexpected things happen. You won't feel a couple of degrees but it just may save your engine.
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Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Mike there's no reason to disect the logs. Just keep doing At runs until you dont see your VE's changing more than a couple %. Then report back.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,291
Likes: 11
From: The Whale's Vagina
You never want to leave it right at the threshold of where it will ping. Temps change, fuel grades change. What happens one day when you or someone else runs into a 5* grade and its a mile to the top. It just happens to be hot as heck outside and the last time you had to fill up didn't have premium at the pumps. Do you listen to it ping all the way up the hill? Better yet, do you want it to ping all the way up the hill? Pinging will destroy a motor in a matter of minutes if it's bad enough. So the smart thing to do is build in a safety margin for when unexpected things happen. You won't feel a couple of degrees but it just may save your engine.
BTW, not sure if it's a perfect SOCAL weather, or if I'm just lucky, but I've never heard my engine ping. I had an old VW (the air cooled kind), that would do it in the mountains occasionally so I know what it sounds like, but just haven't heard any from my bike.