Power Vision Information Thread
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
My experience with Power Vision. HD dealer installed it on y 2013 before it ever left the dealer. I was still laid up so they installed all the stuff I ordered for it free .
They flashed it with a canned map from Dynojet to match my AC and pipes.
Not my forst HD or 103 so I know how the thing should run. It was flawless.
I added the fuel Mot 2-1-2 headers at 2000 miles and re-flashed it wit Fuel motos map. Again painless and flawless.
reading up on it I saw there was so much more It could do. Mounted it and started playing with it. More reading I ran a few auto tunes. It took some messing around but ended up with a good run and a tune that increased Fuel mileage and still ran fine.
The power vision is a great tool it can be a simple flash and forget rt a great tool to experiment with. Simple or complicated depending on where you want to go. The other function it has allow you to display information you may want to see.
Power vision IMO is well worth the cash and time. I can ride with the best of you. Wrench on basic stuff any time . But a tuner for EFI bike I am not nor do I wish to be. The Power vision filled that knowledge/skill gap with a bit of home work and time.
They flashed it with a canned map from Dynojet to match my AC and pipes.
Not my forst HD or 103 so I know how the thing should run. It was flawless.
I added the fuel Mot 2-1-2 headers at 2000 miles and re-flashed it wit Fuel motos map. Again painless and flawless.
reading up on it I saw there was so much more It could do. Mounted it and started playing with it. More reading I ran a few auto tunes. It took some messing around but ended up with a good run and a tune that increased Fuel mileage and still ran fine.
The power vision is a great tool it can be a simple flash and forget rt a great tool to experiment with. Simple or complicated depending on where you want to go. The other function it has allow you to display information you may want to see.
Power vision IMO is well worth the cash and time. I can ride with the best of you. Wrench on basic stuff any time . But a tuner for EFI bike I am not nor do I wish to be. The Power vision filled that knowledge/skill gap with a bit of home work and time.
Last edited by stailjim61; Jan 12, 2014 at 02:18 PM.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 16,271
Likes: 15,108
From: Somewhere SW
I have a question I hope someone could answer.
On my Power Vision under the spark directory there is an Adaptive Knock Retard setting, it's the first item on the list.
Here's what the description says.
Could somebody clarify this for me?
I'm under the impression that the ecm learns where spark knock takes place and adjust accordingly, so that with each key-on (ride) the ecm will prevent knock from taking place in areas where it has occurred in the past...Or do I have this backwards?
Thanks.
Dave
EDIT: After typing in the description I think I figured it out.
It appears that the ecm will learn the knock retard values while you are riding and adjust accordingly, when you turn the key off these values get reset to zero and the process will start all over again on the next ride.
On my Power Vision under the spark directory there is an Adaptive Knock Retard setting, it's the first item on the list.
Here's what the description says.
This system learns spark retard values to apply when spark knock is detected. Learned values will be reduced towards zero after each key on cycle. This gradually clears out learned knock value to adapt to changes in conditions.
I'm under the impression that the ecm learns where spark knock takes place and adjust accordingly, so that with each key-on (ride) the ecm will prevent knock from taking place in areas where it has occurred in the past...Or do I have this backwards?
Thanks.
Dave
EDIT: After typing in the description I think I figured it out.
It appears that the ecm will learn the knock retard values while you are riding and adjust accordingly, when you turn the key off these values get reset to zero and the process will start all over again on the next ride.
Last edited by JustDave13; Jan 16, 2014 at 10:08 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,543
Likes: 19
From: Ashland Ohio
It may take up to like 6 key on events, but you have it basically. This feature is to take care of the once and awhile 'bad' tank of gas.
That being said... this feature is NOT one a person should rely upon for timing. Depending upon the values set, the ECM can pull 2-8* of timing when all that is needed is to manually change the timing table by 1*.
Pulling too much timing is a BAD thing... makes an engine run hot and crappy.
Let me repeat this... It is NOT adjusting accordingly, it will be pulling more than needed, and it is NOT a way for someone to tune a bike.
There is a whole lot more to tuning than fitting the VEs to the bike. VEs, now-a-days are easy to dial in, but timing and all of its adjacent tables make the difference between an ok tune and a good tune.
That being said... this feature is NOT one a person should rely upon for timing. Depending upon the values set, the ECM can pull 2-8* of timing when all that is needed is to manually change the timing table by 1*.
Pulling too much timing is a BAD thing... makes an engine run hot and crappy.
Let me repeat this... It is NOT adjusting accordingly, it will be pulling more than needed, and it is NOT a way for someone to tune a bike.
There is a whole lot more to tuning than fitting the VEs to the bike. VEs, now-a-days are easy to dial in, but timing and all of its adjacent tables make the difference between an ok tune and a good tune.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
I have a question I hope someone could answer.
On my Power Vision under the spark directory there is an Adaptive Knock Retard setting, it's the first item on the list.
Here's what the description says.
Could somebody clarify this for me?
I'm under the impression that the ecm learns where spark knock takes place and adjust accordingly, so that with each key-on (ride) the ecm will prevent knock from taking place in areas where it has occurred in the past...Or do I have this backwards?
Thanks.
Dave
EDIT: After typing in the description I think I figured it out.
It appears that the ecm will learn the knock retard values while you are riding and adjust accordingly, when you turn the key off these values get reset to zero and the process will start all over again on the next ride.
On my Power Vision under the spark directory there is an Adaptive Knock Retard setting, it's the first item on the list.
Here's what the description says.
Could somebody clarify this for me?
I'm under the impression that the ecm learns where spark knock takes place and adjust accordingly, so that with each key-on (ride) the ecm will prevent knock from taking place in areas where it has occurred in the past...Or do I have this backwards?
Thanks.
Dave
EDIT: After typing in the description I think I figured it out.
It appears that the ecm will learn the knock retard values while you are riding and adjust accordingly, when you turn the key off these values get reset to zero and the process will start all over again on the next ride.
Your edit is correct. It's not learning the same way VE's are calculated. What it's doing is learning temporarily. Let's say you got a tank of crap gas and it's pinging. If it learned in a more permanent way and changed your main spark tables permanently, you'd be screwed. Once the temporary condition, bad gas, temperature, elevation, etc. has ceased you'd end up with reduced timing numbers. When you get rid of the bad gas and fill up with the good stuff, you'd be running a low timing number. not good. So it pulls timing based on what it sees happening NOW but starts to clear what it memorized at key cycles. This allows the reduced numbers to vanish and then run off the good main tables. Until, the nonsense starts again, if it does, then it starts building a temporary set of numbers to protect things. If all is good it will erase the temporary profile and use your permanent tables. I'm sure there's more going on in the background but I look at it from a permanent or temporary kind of thing.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 16,271
Likes: 15,108
From: Somewhere SW
It may take up to like 6 key on events, but you have it basically. This feature is to take care of the once and awhile 'bad' tank of gas.
That being said... this feature is NOT one a person should rely upon for timing. Depending upon the values set, the ECM can pull 2-8* of timing when all that is needed is to manually change the timing table by 1*.
Pulling too much timing is a BAD thing... makes an engine run hot and crappy.
Let me repeat this... It is NOT adjusting accordingly, it will be pulling more than needed, and it is NOT a way for someone to tune a bike.
There is a whole lot more to tuning than fitting the VEs to the bike. VEs, now-a-days are easy to dial in, but timing and all of its adjacent tables make the difference between an ok tune and a good tune.
That being said... this feature is NOT one a person should rely upon for timing. Depending upon the values set, the ECM can pull 2-8* of timing when all that is needed is to manually change the timing table by 1*.
Pulling too much timing is a BAD thing... makes an engine run hot and crappy.
Let me repeat this... It is NOT adjusting accordingly, it will be pulling more than needed, and it is NOT a way for someone to tune a bike.
There is a whole lot more to tuning than fitting the VEs to the bike. VEs, now-a-days are easy to dial in, but timing and all of its adjacent tables make the difference between an ok tune and a good tune.
I most certainly wouldn't use this as a place to set the timing and it's good to know that the ecm will over compensate for detonation.
Trying to dial in the timing on this thing can be somewhat of a chore.
Down here in San Diego we have the cheapest gas (91 octane diluted swill) and high temps. I'm running the stock timing strategy with 255 cams and had to pull back a little (1* globally and as much as 2.5* in some areas) because this thing was pinging all over the place.
Even though the bike runs good now (still some pinging but not much) I know I'm being cheated out of power because of the fuel quality.
Your edit is correct. It's not learning the same way VE's are calculated. What it's doing is learning temporarily. Let's say you got a tank of crap gas and it's pinging. If it learned in a more permanent way and changed your main spark tables permanently, you'd be screwed. Once the temporary condition, bad gas, temperature, elevation, etc. has ceased you'd end up with reduced timing numbers. When you get rid of the bad gas and fill up with the good stuff, you'd be running a low timing number. not good. So it pulls timing based on what it sees happening NOW but starts to clear what it memorized at key cycles. This allows the reduced numbers to vanish and then run off the good main tables. Until, the nonsense starts again, if it does, then it starts building a temporary set of numbers to protect things. If all is good it will erase the temporary profile and use your permanent tables. I'm sure there's more going on in the background but I look at it from a permanent or temporary kind of thing.
The wording on the WinPV description was kind of confusing the bad tank of gas thing makes sense.
Last edited by JustDave13; Jan 20, 2014 at 04:39 PM.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,151
Likes: 14
From: Seattle
Hello folks. I recently installed a new Jackpot 2/1/2 head pipe, Stage 1 AC and a PowerVision running the narrowband sensors on my 2012 FLHTK. I've done a few Autotunes and my bike seems to be running great. A couple of observations though and hopefully someone here can clarify for me.
1. The map provided by Fuelmoto has changed considerably after a few tuning runs. I would have thought that my simple stage 1 would have been pretty dialed in to begin with.
2. I've done the "compare" using WinPV and only the VE tables are changing. Should anything else be? Since there are still changes taking place, should I continue to do Autotunes or is doing a handful of runs sufficient?
3. Also looking at some of the other stuff, the AFR chart is basically at 14.4 across the board. It came set up this way...I thought it was supposed to be set at 14.6.
2. My MPG is down a bit from stock. Is that normal? I was getting about 45 and now I'm closer to 40.
I'm not complaining about any of this as I really didn't know what to expect. I realize that I may be able to do better with wideband sensors and/or letting a professional tune it. However, the bike runs great and I feel more power and it sounds different (better). I'm just wondering if my results are in line with what should be expected with Autotune Basic.
Thanks.
1. The map provided by Fuelmoto has changed considerably after a few tuning runs. I would have thought that my simple stage 1 would have been pretty dialed in to begin with.
2. I've done the "compare" using WinPV and only the VE tables are changing. Should anything else be? Since there are still changes taking place, should I continue to do Autotunes or is doing a handful of runs sufficient?
3. Also looking at some of the other stuff, the AFR chart is basically at 14.4 across the board. It came set up this way...I thought it was supposed to be set at 14.6.
2. My MPG is down a bit from stock. Is that normal? I was getting about 45 and now I'm closer to 40.
I'm not complaining about any of this as I really didn't know what to expect. I realize that I may be able to do better with wideband sensors and/or letting a professional tune it. However, the bike runs great and I feel more power and it sounds different (better). I'm just wondering if my results are in line with what should be expected with Autotune Basic.
Thanks.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 55
From: Londonderry, NH
Hello folks. I recently installed a new Jackpot 2/1/2 head pipe, Stage 1 AC and a PowerVision running the narrowband sensors on my 2012 FLHTK. I've done a few Autotunes and my bike seems to be running great. A couple of observations though and hopefully someone here can clarify for me.
1. The map provided by Fuelmoto has changed considerably after a few tuning runs. I would have thought that my simple stage 1 would have been pretty dialed in to begin with.
2. I've done the "compare" using WinPV and only the VE tables are changing. Should anything else be? Since there are still changes taking place, should I continue to do Autotunes or is doing a handful of runs sufficient?
3. Also looking at some of the other stuff, the AFR chart is basically at 14.4 across the board. It came set up this way...I thought it was supposed to be set at 14.6.
2. My MPG is down a bit from stock. Is that normal? I was getting about 45 and now I'm closer to 40.
I'm not complaining about any of this as I really didn't know what to expect. I realize that I may be able to do better with wideband sensors and/or letting a professional tune it. However, the bike runs great and I feel more power and it sounds different (better). I'm just wondering if my results are in line with what should be expected with Autotune Basic.
Thanks.
1. The map provided by Fuelmoto has changed considerably after a few tuning runs. I would have thought that my simple stage 1 would have been pretty dialed in to begin with.
2. I've done the "compare" using WinPV and only the VE tables are changing. Should anything else be? Since there are still changes taking place, should I continue to do Autotunes or is doing a handful of runs sufficient?
3. Also looking at some of the other stuff, the AFR chart is basically at 14.4 across the board. It came set up this way...I thought it was supposed to be set at 14.6.
2. My MPG is down a bit from stock. Is that normal? I was getting about 45 and now I'm closer to 40.
I'm not complaining about any of this as I really didn't know what to expect. I realize that I may be able to do better with wideband sensors and/or letting a professional tune it. However, the bike runs great and I feel more power and it sounds different (better). I'm just wondering if my results are in line with what should be expected with Autotune Basic.
Thanks.
1. The map has changed because the PV is dialing in the VE's for your bike.
2. The PV will only adjust VE's if you are using autotune...based on the feedback from your O2 sensors. You should continue to run autotunes until the changes stabilize and are less than 5% for optimal tuning.
3. An AFR of 14.4 allows for closed loop tuning...so you are making adjustments to the map based on O2 sensor readings. 14.6 would be outside of the closed loop range (~14.3-15.2), so you would be running open loop and would have to set AFR/VE manually. 14.3 is on the rich side of closed loop.
4. It's not unusual for MPG to drop a bit while you're tuning. You can manually set AFR's a bit leaner in the cruise range if you want to improve MPG.
If you want the software to make timing changes for you... you must process the data files with PV log tuner. Otherwise, you will have to make manual changes based on knock events found in the data files.
You seem to be doing all the right things, and results are normal.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,151
Likes: 14
From: Seattle
2. The PV will only adjust VE's if you are using autotune...based on the feedback from your O2 sensors. You should continue to run autotunes until the changes stabilize and are less than 5% for optimal tuning.
3. An AFR of 14.4 allows for closed loop tuning...so you are making adjustments to the map based on O2 sensor readings. 14.6 would be outside of the closed loop range (~14.3-15.2), so you would be running open loop and would have to set AFR/VE manually. 14.3 is on the rich side of closed loop.
You seem to be doing all the right things, and results are normal.
3. An AFR of 14.4 allows for closed loop tuning...so you are making adjustments to the map based on O2 sensor readings. 14.6 would be outside of the closed loop range (~14.3-15.2), so you would be running open loop and would have to set AFR/VE manually. 14.3 is on the rich side of closed loop.
You seem to be doing all the right things, and results are normal.
On the AFR, 14.4 is within the closed loop range so I'm not following exactly what you're saying. I was just questioning how it came up with the 14.4...guessing it was a default set by FM as part of the base tune.
Thanks for the confirmation.
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Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
Thanks, that all make sense about the 5%.
On the AFR, 14.4 is within the closed loop range so I'm not following exactly what you're saying. I was just questioning how it came up with the 14.4...guessing it was a default set by FM as part of the base tune.
Thanks for the confirmation.
On the AFR, 14.4 is within the closed loop range so I'm not following exactly what you're saying. I was just questioning how it came up with the 14.4...guessing it was a default set by FM as part of the base tune.
Thanks for the confirmation.
As you get more comfortable with the product you will continue to tinker with your tune and might decide to try running more areas of your map in open loop, any value less then 14.4.
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 359
Likes: 21
From: Midland Tx.
throttle blade control
Tried this in a new thread and had no luck so I'll try it here.
I need some details on adjusting the throttle blade control (alternate) to reduce the throttle lag off the line.
I'd like to hear from someone who has done this; what numbers did you change and by how much?
Am I looking to up the numbers in the lower throttle percent columns and in what rpm rows?
I could just start experimenting, and I will if I don't get some response, but I was hoping for a starting point.
I need some details on adjusting the throttle blade control (alternate) to reduce the throttle lag off the line.
I'd like to hear from someone who has done this; what numbers did you change and by how much?
Am I looking to up the numbers in the lower throttle percent columns and in what rpm rows?
I could just start experimenting, and I will if I don't get some response, but I was hoping for a starting point.