Power Vision Information Thread
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 64
Likes: 1
From: KY
Need some help. AT has mine not wanting to run when first started. Backfires, very rough idle, and stumbles. I'm considering dumping the tune. What factor would affect this ? Is it the 4* of timing? Thanks, Kranky.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
Now to confuse matters more, when I was using another tuning program in 2008, I asked the same question. The response was don't worry about it. Chances are that you tune is already based on E10, mine is as that's all that is available where I am located.
Hopefully my thinking is correct on this.
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 327
Likes: 1
From: Fairfax Virginia
Lots of info but getting me know where
I guys, new to tuning but bought myself a PV and have been playing with it. I ran autotune and it helped a bit but i'm convinced i need to create a custom tune.
Do I completely edit the AFR table in Win PV, and then export that to the PV to be tuned to my bike. Also, what else am I changing? I could then run autotune against the new tune. Are people using autotune or just creating custom tunes? I'm also curious what PV autotune defaults to in terms of AFR.
If yes, then what am I adjusting the current table to(I am running PV basic). I'm not to worried about mpg, i just want the performance within reason. any help understanding the step by step of creating a custom tune would help.
Honestly for something that is supposed to be simple its a bit confusing.
I can do the rest in terms of getting it from Computer to pv to bike
Do I completely edit the AFR table in Win PV, and then export that to the PV to be tuned to my bike. Also, what else am I changing? I could then run autotune against the new tune. Are people using autotune or just creating custom tunes? I'm also curious what PV autotune defaults to in terms of AFR.
If yes, then what am I adjusting the current table to(I am running PV basic). I'm not to worried about mpg, i just want the performance within reason. any help understanding the step by step of creating a custom tune would help.
Honestly for something that is supposed to be simple its a bit confusing.
I can do the rest in terms of getting it from Computer to pv to bike
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
The tune should end up being lean. I believe the stoich value of gas is 14.7, while E10 is 14.13. If you were lambda based you wouldn't have to worry about it AFAIK. But for the AFR based tunes, for example, if you had an AFR of 14.4 set in whatever cell tuned using gas, and you were running E10, the corresponding value of 13.9 would be required to be at that place you were initially. My thinking is that is if you did the AT process only using E10 then the VEs that were established takes the E10 into consideration and all is good with the world. This may be why we all feel we get better performance when we can find real gas (the motor is now running richer).
Now to confuse matters more, when I was using another tuning program in 2008, I asked the same question. The response was don't worry about it. Chances are that you tune is already based on E10, mine is as that's all that is available where I am located.
Hopefully my thinking is correct on this.
Now to confuse matters more, when I was using another tuning program in 2008, I asked the same question. The response was don't worry about it. Chances are that you tune is already based on E10, mine is as that's all that is available where I am located.
Hopefully my thinking is correct on this.
So with E 10 ( if im getting you ) our tunes are running a little more rich? I also dont pay enough attention to the differance between lambda and AFR based tunes because mine is lambda. So without thinking i assume everyones is....good to know.
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Anchorage, Alaska
You should be able to go into AT, fire the bike up and go into AT data collection and watch it count up hits. After it gets 50+ in idele area switch modes and look at the fron and rear change screens... I suspect you will see a large increase in VE in those cells. If so, export the map and go back into AT using the updated map.
Depending on "how close" your starting map is, the bike can run very rough untill you get a fun tuning runs in a particular area.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
Delta.... All i ever see us E10 at the pump. i assumed that it is like that everywhere. I just dont pay attention to that because it is all E10 as far as i know. if it isnt....again...another train of thought has to be adopted again.
So with E 10 ( if im getting you ) our tunes are running a little more rich? I also dont pay enough attention to the differance between lambda and AFR based tunes because mine is lambda. So without thinking i assume everyones is....good to know.
So with E 10 ( if im getting you ) our tunes are running a little more rich? I also dont pay enough attention to the differance between lambda and AFR based tunes because mine is lambda. So without thinking i assume everyones is....good to know.
I am not saying that with E10 your tune is running rich. (I do believe that if you were to find real gas though, it would be rich.) When it was "dialed in" via AT the resultant VEs were created based on the fuel that was being used at that time. Some on this forum go so far as to create different tunes via AT with different fuel octanes in anticipation of what may be available on their road trips.
I would keep your train of thought right where it is and not go nuts over this stuff. I do know that when I was my recent road trip to North Carolina, the gas was definitely better then the stuff we have here. My mileage and performance was a lot better. I definately notice stuff like that on a 1200 pound trike.
My bike runs fine, no pinging, good performance, not overly hot and fuel mileage is comparable to what others get with a trike. It's as close as anyone else could get it without a dyno (been there, done that with other bikes).
Sometimes I feel that this is a complicated subject and with my very limited understanding, I don't explain things quite right. Sure wish the brain trust would offer their insights.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 64
Likes: 1
From: KY
If the idle area VEs are low, then the result going into AT (where the table is set to all 14.6:1 will be very lean.
You should be able to go into AT, fire the bike up and go into AT data collection and watch it count up hits. After it gets 50+ in idele area switch modes and look at the fron and rear change screens... I suspect you will see a large increase in VE in those cells. If so, export the map and go back into AT using the updated map.
Depending on "how close" your starting map is, the bike can run very rough untill you get a fun tuning runs in a particular area.
You should be able to go into AT, fire the bike up and go into AT data collection and watch it count up hits. After it gets 50+ in idele area switch modes and look at the fron and rear change screens... I suspect you will see a large increase in VE in those cells. If so, export the map and go back into AT using the updated map.
Depending on "how close" your starting map is, the bike can run very rough untill you get a fun tuning runs in a particular area.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Any other recent changes to the bike - exhaust, etc...? Some have swapped out their exhaust and had similar behavior after putting the O2 sensors back wrong. The more you collect, the worse it gets as it's taking samples from the other cylinder. Not saying this happened, but look at the other variables in the equation. AT has worked very well for many.
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Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Any other recent changes to the bike - exhaust, etc...? Some have swapped out their exhaust and had similar behavior after putting the O2 sensors back wrong. The more you collect, the worse it gets as it's taking samples from the other cylinder. Not saying this happened, but look at the other variables in the equation. AT has worked very well for many.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
If everything on the bike is in good repair it should tune fine. Do like was suggested and get the idle area calibrated. You should be able to fill in 3 or 4 cells just sitting on the sidestand. Dial those in and reflash. Then go out and do 2 or 3 10 minute EASY AT runs. This should help start getting the numbers going in the right direction without beating up on the engine. After 3 easy runs start doing full runs hitting as many cells as you can. If you want to be safe do a knock log run after the easy runs.