Power Vision Information Thread
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
All that stuff adds up to a hotter engine. But, if you talk to the pros they'll tell you that if you're under 300 it's fine. (I was suprised when I heard that, but I've heard that more than once from people at DJ and others that I believe have had lot's of industry knowledge on the subject.)
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
AT sets the fuel for you because the narrow band sensors are most accurate in that range and that is the switch mixture ( if you want to call it that ) to put the bike in closed loop. It will set the entire A/F table to 14.6 so you can get data in all cells not just cruse range if your map is set to 14.6 in only the cruse range. if i remember right you are also supose to set the A.F in log tuner to 14.6 if using narrow band sensors. My tuning process ended up great without using log tuner. i have no need to try log tuner.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Sam... Im still not getting it i guess.... Here is how i understand it and anyone that can correct my thinking feel free.... if there is a way other than with wide band sensors or manual adjustments for timing, to be able to use greater than 14.6 to 1 i have not heard of that method. Would like to know more about that method.
As i understand it....AT sets everything on the A/F table to 14.6 to 1. This is so the narrow band sensors can get a reading. So.... if trying to use AT to adjust timing you would still be in a closed loop state with A/F tables set to 14.6 to 1.
Do you need to have your A/F table set to 14.6 to 1 to be able to adjust timing? If using AT then my answer is yes because you have no choice. AT does it for you and as far as i know we can not change it. With LT i think you also have to set the A/F table to the closed loop state. if you dont it will not work correctly either unless you are using wide band sensors. i also agree AT went backwards on trying to correct timing. Doesnt make sense to retard timing 4 deg and correct knock retard. In most cases i would think that retarded timing of 4 deg would never have knock retard.
As for me saying i guesstimated you are correct. but i did not guess on timing adjustments. i never adjusted timing. i want to make sure i have an understanding of timing before i adjust it. That is why i tossed fuel at the area. Much easier in my mind to do that till i have a good understanding of how timing will effect my bike.
I also dont explain things well so im right with ya on that. Its all good.
The thread comming full circle has been happening for a long time. If we read from start to fininsh the same questions keep poping up. I agree with you. It has made a full circle more than once in my opnion.
As i understand it....AT sets everything on the A/F table to 14.6 to 1. This is so the narrow band sensors can get a reading. So.... if trying to use AT to adjust timing you would still be in a closed loop state with A/F tables set to 14.6 to 1.
Do you need to have your A/F table set to 14.6 to 1 to be able to adjust timing? If using AT then my answer is yes because you have no choice. AT does it for you and as far as i know we can not change it. With LT i think you also have to set the A/F table to the closed loop state. if you dont it will not work correctly either unless you are using wide band sensors. i also agree AT went backwards on trying to correct timing. Doesnt make sense to retard timing 4 deg and correct knock retard. In most cases i would think that retarded timing of 4 deg would never have knock retard.
As for me saying i guesstimated you are correct. but i did not guess on timing adjustments. i never adjusted timing. i want to make sure i have an understanding of timing before i adjust it. That is why i tossed fuel at the area. Much easier in my mind to do that till i have a good understanding of how timing will effect my bike.
I also dont explain things well so im right with ya on that. Its all good.
The thread comming full circle has been happening for a long time. If we read from start to fininsh the same questions keep poping up. I agree with you. It has made a full circle more than once in my opnion.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Boston quote. i have added some fuel in the areas i have guesstimated it happened in as i was not running a log at the time it happened.
You said it yourself........ Your good to go then.
I am sorry you don't understand as it it NOT same pending how you use it. what I am trying to explain with log tuner and I admit I am not good at communications. The part I am not getting across is about the 14.6, You do not need your 14.6/.981 to do timing...... I need not talk with dynojet because I have and I know. I have read this thread for a long time but will no longer its been full circle for while. AT took a step backwards on timing. But it was right in their grasp to have had something cool with it and as long as they do not dog off LT I can live with it.
You said it yourself........ Your good to go then.
I am sorry you don't understand as it it NOT same pending how you use it. what I am trying to explain with log tuner and I admit I am not good at communications. The part I am not getting across is about the 14.6, You do not need your 14.6/.981 to do timing...... I need not talk with dynojet because I have and I know. I have read this thread for a long time but will no longer its been full circle for while. AT took a step backwards on timing. But it was right in their grasp to have had something cool with it and as long as they do not dog off LT I can live with it.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
I did a log that showed a few pullbacks of 2*. I ran it through log tuner and it removed 1/2 to 1 degree in those 3 or 4 cells. I manually removed about a degree more in that area and rewrote the tune. Should I do another autotune and then a log tune and repeat untill the knocks are gone or very rare? I've also been trying a mixture of my hd stage 1 map and my fuelmoto map but that's another story.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Am I the only person that is having bad luck with the Power Vision?
I have a completely stock 2012 Sporster 1200 Custom.
Every time I run a AT on the stock base map it gets worse, almost all the cells are heading in the lean direction by 5-10%.
These bikes are already very lean from the factory, this ain't good.
I've run Dynojets 'Improved Stock Tune' but it is a open loop Power Commander tune, Pig Fat Rich and a lot of stuff is turned off and not used due to the older technology. I really wanted to just improve my stock tune and keep the closed loop for all its advantages.
I guess I really need to just find a proven tune to load in and see how it runs.
Don't know what to do next, any suggestions?
I have a completely stock 2012 Sporster 1200 Custom.
Every time I run a AT on the stock base map it gets worse, almost all the cells are heading in the lean direction by 5-10%.
These bikes are already very lean from the factory, this ain't good.
I've run Dynojets 'Improved Stock Tune' but it is a open loop Power Commander tune, Pig Fat Rich and a lot of stuff is turned off and not used due to the older technology. I really wanted to just improve my stock tune and keep the closed loop for all its advantages.
I guess I really need to just find a proven tune to load in and see how it runs.
Don't know what to do next, any suggestions?
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
It is what it is. Way too many newbies overly concerned with gas mileage. Do you think tuners set up bikes at 14.6 BEFORE the EPA got involved with the MoCo? Nope. I just shake my head when I hear folks bragging about getting 50 MPG. The best overall AFR is between 13.8 and 14.0 for a mild build. Even a bone stock bike will run better around 14.0. Forget about mileage and set it up where it runs the best.
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Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
So, I've run four or five auto tunes and each time, I've always built on the previous tune. Is this the correct procedure? I've noticed when setting up to do a session, and loading the last tune, the PV screen looks as if I'm starting from scratch. No blocks are filled at all.
Is this normal or am I screwing up somehow?
I've read of folks seeing engine temps of 250-260. I'm running hotter. It was 84 today and riding around in town (stop and go, but moving along) I'm seeing temps of 280-300. In heavy traffic, I'll see 300-315.
On cooler days (70s) moving along with no traffic I run around 250-260 or so.
Anyone else seeing these sorts of temps?
Is this normal or am I screwing up somehow?
I've read of folks seeing engine temps of 250-260. I'm running hotter. It was 84 today and riding around in town (stop and go, but moving along) I'm seeing temps of 280-300. In heavy traffic, I'll see 300-315.
On cooler days (70s) moving along with no traffic I run around 250-260 or so.
Anyone else seeing these sorts of temps?
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 264
Likes: 2
From: USA
Is there a oil cooler on that FatBob? I'm guessing there is but that's higher temps than I would want. Is there a CAT in the headpipe on those? If so, do you still have the CAT in there?
All that stuff adds up to a hotter engine. But, if you talk to the pros they'll tell you that if you're under 300 it's fine. (I was suprised when I heard that, but I've heard that more than once from people at DJ and others that I believe have had lot's of industry knowledge on the subject.)
All that stuff adds up to a hotter engine. But, if you talk to the pros they'll tell you that if you're under 300 it's fine. (I was suprised when I heard that, but I've heard that more than once from people at DJ and others that I believe have had lot's of industry knowledge on the subject.)
Has a cat in the pipes. (wish it didn't) Don't believe it can be removed without destroying the pipes?