Power Vision Information Thread
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
Chris, my bike is a 96" so that may explain mine being a tad cooler. I am happy with the power, and I pulled the plugs and they were perfect color, so I think the engine is happy too. I used to run even a bit cooler with the PCIII, but I've become convinced that that was because it was feeding even richer AFR mix to the engine and my plugs always looked like I was running rich (a little too black).
I have considered a couple of options from here.
1. Continue to experiment lower in the open loop range and continue to monitor the performance/temps/plugs etc
2. Work with LogTuner on the engine timing. Although both Dynojet and Fuelmoto argue that since I'm not running cams or any other engine mods effecting timing I shouldn't need to do that. I was also told that AT does have a switch to fine tune timing, but it is turned off by default, because before any timing is changed VEs need to be right. I need to investigate this further.
All in all I am pleased with my current tune and if my "tinkering mind" has other things to do, I may just leave it all alone and enjoy the ride.
I have considered a couple of options from here.
1. Continue to experiment lower in the open loop range and continue to monitor the performance/temps/plugs etc
2. Work with LogTuner on the engine timing. Although both Dynojet and Fuelmoto argue that since I'm not running cams or any other engine mods effecting timing I shouldn't need to do that. I was also told that AT does have a switch to fine tune timing, but it is turned off by default, because before any timing is changed VEs need to be right. I need to investigate this further.
All in all I am pleased with my current tune and if my "tinkering mind" has other things to do, I may just leave it all alone and enjoy the ride.
Whne i said i tossed fuel at mine in the area i got ping ( during the 95 deg days ) i should have said i took my table from 14.2 down to 14.0. i did this until i can recreate the condition. that has been the only time i have gotten any ping that i could hear. i did run logs previously and had 0 knock retard. So... i need to try to recreate the condition i had it and run logs and i will manually correct it from there. i have no issues with letting LT or AT move it around i would just rather do it myself from logs.
I have always agreeded with people that say a stage one turns out just fine with PV. I also have a friend that has a 96in. with reinhart 2 into 1 and se 255 cams. he used AT and had good results. So im on the fence with if it is ok or not for stage 2. So far so good for him. i bet he will develop a ping or 2 like i did in hot weather. but if he doesnt....more power to him.
if the rain breaks we will have to get out for a ride together.
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
Also note the the CLB table is set in both cases at 720 across the entire table.
I would also add that with both these tables there is excellent power and the temps based on the oil temp and low 200'F and the PowerVision ET says approx 225'F (in the 90s air temp this climbs to 250-260F)
here is the 13.9 table.
here is the 14.2 table
I would also add that with both these tables there is excellent power and the temps based on the oil temp and low 200'F and the PowerVision ET says approx 225'F (in the 90s air temp this climbs to 250-260F)
here is the 13.9 table.
here is the 14.2 table
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,858
Likes: 217
From: Puyallup Wa.
AT sets the fuel for you because the narrow band sensors are most accurate in that range and that is the switch mixture ( if you want to call it that ) to put the bike in closed loop. It will set the entire A/F table to 14.6 so you can get data in all cells not just cruse range if your map is set to 14.6 in only the cruse range. if i remember right you are also supose to set the A.F in log tuner to 14.6 if using narrow band sensors. My tuning process ended up great without using log tuner. i have no need to try log tuner.
You said it yourself........ Your good to go then.
I am sorry you don't understand as it it NOT same pending how you use it. what I am trying to explain with log tuner and I admit I am not good at communications. The part I am not getting across is about the 14.6, You do not need your 14.6/.981 to do timing...... I need not talk with dynojet because I have and I know. I have read this thread for a long time but will no longer its been full circle for while. AT took a step backwards on timing. But it was right in their grasp to have had something cool with it and as long as they do not dog off LT I can live with it.
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
Boston quote. i have added some fuel in the areas i have guesstimated it happened in as i was not running a log at the time it happened.
You said it yourself........ Your good to go then.
I am sorry you don't understand as it it NOT same pending how you use it. what I am trying to explain with log tuner and I admit I am not good at communications. The part I am not getting across is about the 14.6, You do not need your 14.6/.981 to do timing...... I need not talk with dynojet because I have and I know. I have read this thread for a long time but will no longer its been full circle for while. AT took a step backwards on timing. But it was right in their grasp to have had something cool with it and as long as they do not dog off LT I can live with it.
You said it yourself........ Your good to go then.
I am sorry you don't understand as it it NOT same pending how you use it. what I am trying to explain with log tuner and I admit I am not good at communications. The part I am not getting across is about the 14.6, You do not need your 14.6/.981 to do timing...... I need not talk with dynojet because I have and I know. I have read this thread for a long time but will no longer its been full circle for while. AT took a step backwards on timing. But it was right in their grasp to have had something cool with it and as long as they do not dog off LT I can live with it.
As i understand it....AT sets everything on the A/F table to 14.6 to 1. This is so the narrow band sensors can get a reading. So.... if trying to use AT to adjust timing you would still be in a closed loop state with A/F tables set to 14.6 to 1.
Do you need to have your A/F table set to 14.6 to 1 to be able to adjust timing? If using AT then my answer is yes because you have no choice. AT does it for you and as far as i know we can not change it. With LT i think you also have to set the A/F table to the closed loop state. if you dont it will not work correctly either unless you are using wide band sensors. i also agree AT went backwards on trying to correct timing. Doesnt make sense to retard timing 4 deg and correct knock retard. In most cases i would think that retarded timing of 4 deg would never have knock retard.
As for me saying i guesstimated you are correct. but i did not guess on timing adjustments. i never adjusted timing. i want to make sure i have an understanding of timing before i adjust it. That is why i tossed fuel at the area. Much easier in my mind to do that till i have a good understanding of how timing will effect my bike.
I also dont explain things well so im right with ya on that. Its all good.
The thread comming full circle has been happening for a long time. If we read from start to fininsh the same questions keep poping up. I agree with you. It has made a full circle more than once in my opnion.
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
Got it. that i understand.
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 225
Likes: 6
I did a log that showed a few pullbacks of 2*. I ran it through log tuner and it removed 1/2 to 1 degree in those 3 or 4 cells. I manually removed about a degree more in that area and rewrote the tune. Should I do another autotune and then a log tune and repeat untill the knocks are gone or very rare? I've also been trying a mixture of my hd stage 1 map and my fuelmoto map but that's another story.
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,454
Likes: 58
From: Graysville, AL
Also note the the CLB table is set in both cases at 720 across the entire table.
I would also add that with both these tables there is excellent power and the temps based on the oil temp and low 200'F and the PowerVision ET says approx 225'F (in the 90s air temp this climbs to 250-260F)
here is the 13.9 table.
here is the 14.2 table
I would also add that with both these tables there is excellent power and the temps based on the oil temp and low 200'F and the PowerVision ET says approx 225'F (in the 90s air temp this climbs to 250-260F)
here is the 13.9 table.
here is the 14.2 table
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
If you look to the upper right of the AFR table you should see a little box followed by "Show air fuel ratio....." Just check this box to convert from lambda to stoich.