Hey guys, so now I am learning how to AutoTune using AT-Basic and I have successfully run two AutoTunes against the FM supplied tune for my Stage 1 07 Electraglide. She is running really good.

So I have a couple questions regarding documentation of using WinPV and Datalogging. I see that my ATs have generated .PVV logs, but I don't know how to get .CSV files or whatever I need to review them. Or do I use WinPV?


Any pointers to user documentation?

 

I'm new to PV and to tuning. I have messed around with autotune and can see that it appears to only be altering the VE tables. The AFR table stays the same.

So the way I see it, autotune just a fine tuning tool. If your base tune (AFR table, spark advance table) is not correct for your specification (cams, exhaust, intake) then you are just auto tuning a bad tune which isn't going to replace a good base tune to start with. Correct?

I haven't read all 440 pages, but it seems some people are suggesting that you can start with any tune and if you run autotune enough times it will fix it and you will end up with a good result.

 

New updates to WinPV and firmware. All I could detect is that active exhaust parameters are now exposed.

 

when you are on the datalog screen make sure you hit the little button below so it will start saving a log of what you are doing.

to view the saved logs you can use excel (thats what i use) or megalogviewer... havent really used it much but im told its a good tool
both those programs have a bit of a learning curve.

 

i can answer some of this but you will need other people for the rest.

narrow band sensors, to the best of my knowledge, are the only ones harley has used, they have changes sizes (my 2011 softail uses 18mm and the newer bikes use 12mm).

narrow band is very accurate for measuring afr values at or near stoich ( 14.7) better/more accurate than wideband for this afr.

you can use a 2011 pipe with 18mm bungs on a 2012 bike, just need an adapter so the 12mm sensors fit in the 18mm bung.

having both installed will allow you to tune a wide range of afr values.... some people like to use open loop as opposed to closed loop

 

without an accurate ve table it doesnt matter what afr you want to run, you simply wont get it.

Air Fuel Ratio

if your ecm thinks there is a certain amount of air it will add a specific amount of fuel to achieve the desired afr.

if there is less or more air than what the ecm is expecting the added fuel will not equal the desired afr.

for stock bikes or slightly modified (pipes, intake) the base map may be off but that just means doing more runs to get the ve table accurately mapped.

spark is a bit more involved and better left for someone else to explain. personally i only changed my spark tables a little cause of the amount of knock i was getting.... i may be getting close but i am not ready to fine tune my spark tables yet

 

I'm now glad you posted this. When you do an AT and let the unit make the changes you won't see anything in the 750 row. I experimented with a 176 cal this morning.

AT letting PV make changes = no VE correction to 750 row.

Datalog tune using PV Log Tuner = change to 750 row / 0 column.

 

Try running a datalog at the same time your using AT. Then load the log into Log Tuner and go through the manual process of updating a new cal. You don't have to save it as a new cal but it will show you hit count. Even better if you had any knock retard you can see that also.

Here's a suggestion, right, wrong, good or bad. Go out for a 45 minute NORMAL ride. Then look at the datalog and see what is YOUR normal riding area. Take blue painters tape and make a box of that area then go out and max the crap out of that area. Do it 3 times and compare. After the 3rd run you should be around 3% or less. This won't be your final tune, but it's a way to see how your data in that area is affecting your tune. If you get, lets say 70+ hits on each run, and your tune is swinging, then you have something going on with the bike. If, after 3 runs of hitting 70+ in that bax and your tune stays within a couple % then you can rule out thebike. Operator error is the problem, or you're not reading the results correctly.

Another point to the above is this. When someone makes the first AT run it's not a bad idea to do a pretty mellow run. This helps in getting your VE's going in the right direction. Start out with a datalog run and use Log Tuner to build the new cal. PV Log Tuner will show you if you have any outrageous knock retard going with the starter cal. It's an extra step, but it gives someone a decent idea of how far off the starter cal really is. Ex: You see timing being oulled out in bucketloads, then one would be wise to make a correction before tuning.

As far as increasing how much correction you expect: I'm not a big fan of that approach, unless you're maxing out hits. It's like the geek saying of garbage in equals garbage out. I wouldn't trust letting the PV make a huge correction on limited hits. Yes, it will correct, but how valid is the big correction based on limited data. I'd rather make extra AT runs.

 

You'll be good. If you need to make a checklist and put it on a 3 x 5 card, stick it in your pocket so you can reflash on the road, do it. You don't have to make a full AT run every time. If you go to the store or just bee bopping on a 15 minute ride, do an AT and reflash. Eventually it all comes together. But, on your last 2 runs I would do full blown runs.

 

There really isn't an answer to a wanted goal. First and foremost, the bike has a certain build configuration. It will only run as good as that build is detailed. One will only get out of the engine, performance wise, what the build will put out. VE's are the key, yep I sound like a broken record. But, everything hinges on those VE's.

In a closed loop cal you're pretty much looking at best MPG and some heat. If one can deal with the heat there's nothing wrong with a closed loop cal. It's probably the way to fly if someone does alot of touring and stays moving.

If someone is a barhopper/day long ride mix, then a mixed loop cal may work better.

The other extreme is someone who does alot of city riding, romps on it light to light, hotrodding type of riding. Depending on the location, temps, I wouldn't run a closed loop cal. MPG probably isn't a big concern so I feel a richer mixture, all around is best. I know the die hard closed loop fans would chastise me for saying that, but it is what it is.

Basically, there's a time and a place for everything. How someone rides determines how they should set up their ca....AFTER the VE's are calibrated!!

I know....the VE lecture again....Sorry.