Power Vision Information Thread
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
I'm running open loop on my 08 heritage, cruise range is set to 14.2 i tried a few other afr's this is where my bike felt the most responsive/smooth. I did,t notice any meadurable cooling benifit from this though, i'm sure there was some cooling but nothing to brag about. The biggest area i noticed as having a cooling effect was increasing the idle range to 13.8 afr.
As far as running open loop i'm not sure about TBW bikes but you do not need a PC inport, if you set AFR outside of 14.7 your ecm automatically goes to open loop. There is also a switch in winpv that turns closed loop off and on. Again i have a cable bike so i'm not sure about any tbw bikes but they should work the same.
In response to your previous question about importing you pc3 map and auto tuning your ve's it would kinda defeat the point of loading the pc3 map to begin with. I imagine your bike was overly rich with the pc3 so if you were to auto tune it and correct you ve's it would probably lean it out a bit. What kind of mpg's were you getting with the pc3? Did you ever look at the plugs while you were running the pc3? The only other thing i can think of as far as you getting higher temps would be if there are any major changes in the spark tables as this can effect temps.
As far as running open loop i'm not sure about TBW bikes but you do not need a PC inport, if you set AFR outside of 14.7 your ecm automatically goes to open loop. There is also a switch in winpv that turns closed loop off and on. Again i have a cable bike so i'm not sure about any tbw bikes but they should work the same.
In response to your previous question about importing you pc3 map and auto tuning your ve's it would kinda defeat the point of loading the pc3 map to begin with. I imagine your bike was overly rich with the pc3 so if you were to auto tune it and correct you ve's it would probably lean it out a bit. What kind of mpg's were you getting with the pc3? Did you ever look at the plugs while you were running the pc3? The only other thing i can think of as far as you getting higher temps would be if there are any major changes in the spark tables as this can effect temps.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Interesting and thanks for the response.
I have an 07, and did have a PCIII. I realize I don't need a PCIII import map, I had one and kind of assumed it was an asset. But, maybe not.
I got fine gas mileage with stock FuelMoto PCIII tune. Almost always in the 39~41 range. So no complaints on that front, although I do ride conservatively, and usually as a tourer in the 2300-2800rpm range. So I'm not always hard on the throttle.
The plugs always were slightly dark in my opinion.. but never black or obviously overly rich.. they were just more charcoal than gray color. But, I was willing to live with that since the bike ran perfectly, no popping anyplace, and like I said, it ran usually in the range of 190'F-205'F except on the hottest days (90s) it might creep toward 215'F on my oil temp guage.
Here in New England hot weather doesn't happen all that often but prior to my PCIII stage 1 and the Jagg oil cooler the bike ran hot. The Stage 1 helped a lot and then the oil cooler just brought it down another 10'.
I'm working through the AutoTune basic process now and once I get that dialed in, I'll reassess my next steps. Given I love the bike and intend to keep it for a good long time, it's not that big a step to shell out the extra bucks for the pro kit sometime this season.
I have an 07, and did have a PCIII. I realize I don't need a PCIII import map, I had one and kind of assumed it was an asset. But, maybe not.
I got fine gas mileage with stock FuelMoto PCIII tune. Almost always in the 39~41 range. So no complaints on that front, although I do ride conservatively, and usually as a tourer in the 2300-2800rpm range. So I'm not always hard on the throttle.
The plugs always were slightly dark in my opinion.. but never black or obviously overly rich.. they were just more charcoal than gray color. But, I was willing to live with that since the bike ran perfectly, no popping anyplace, and like I said, it ran usually in the range of 190'F-205'F except on the hottest days (90s) it might creep toward 215'F on my oil temp guage.
Here in New England hot weather doesn't happen all that often but prior to my PCIII stage 1 and the Jagg oil cooler the bike ran hot. The Stage 1 helped a lot and then the oil cooler just brought it down another 10'.
I'm working through the AutoTune basic process now and once I get that dialed in, I'll reassess my next steps. Given I love the bike and intend to keep it for a good long time, it's not that big a step to shell out the extra bucks for the pro kit sometime this season.
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 766
Likes: 0
From: USA
Finally got to do some autotuning. Ran three, 15-20 minute sessions.
Now the big question, what does this mean? The first two files are the front and rear VE values. The third and fourth files are the Delta values compared to the original FuelMoto map that was loaded on my Powervision. There are obviously some differences in the numbers, as well as cell colors (some seem major), so if someone can look at these and see if it looks ok I would greatly appreciate it!
The bike runs great but does have some decal popping when going down a steep hill and letting off the throttle.
Autotune Front VE
Autotune Rear VE
These two are the Delta comparisons using the original FuelMoto Map that came on my Powervision
Delta Front VE
Delta Rear VE
Now the big question, what does this mean? The first two files are the front and rear VE values. The third and fourth files are the Delta values compared to the original FuelMoto map that was loaded on my Powervision. There are obviously some differences in the numbers, as well as cell colors (some seem major), so if someone can look at these and see if it looks ok I would greatly appreciate it!
The bike runs great but does have some decal popping when going down a steep hill and letting off the throttle.
Autotune Front VE
Autotune Rear VE
These two are the Delta comparisons using the original FuelMoto Map that came on my Powervision
Delta Front VE
Delta Rear VE
Last edited by Nocturnalnature; May 16, 2013 at 04:17 AM.
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 523
Likes: 1
From: kingston ontario
looking at the logs i see there are no changes below 1000, tho there are more changes in the 1000 area than before so it seems it is not possible to tune below 1000 rpm.
i understand that i must be consistent with my tuning runs to see when i am getting minimal changes between runs. BUT...in reality i do not ride in a consistent manner.
sometimes i more or less cruise and sometimes i hammer on it, most of the time it is a combination of both. can we really tune for that? how does this affect those of us who may like to run open loop?
i understand that i must be consistent with my tuning runs to see when i am getting minimal changes between runs. BUT...in reality i do not ride in a consistent manner.
sometimes i more or less cruise and sometimes i hammer on it, most of the time it is a combination of both. can we really tune for that? how does this affect those of us who may like to run open loop?
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
Thanks Jamie. I got it and will give it a try. Your maps are always a great starting point.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
looking at the logs i see there are no changes below 1000, tho there are more changes in the 1000 area than before so it seems it is not possible to tune below 1000 rpm.
i understand that i must be consistent with my tuning runs to see when i am getting minimal changes between runs. BUT...in reality i do not ride in a consistent manner.
sometimes i more or less cruise and sometimes i hammer on it, most of the time it is a combination of both. can we really tune for that? how does this affect those of us who may like to run open loop?
i understand that i must be consistent with my tuning runs to see when i am getting minimal changes between runs. BUT...in reality i do not ride in a consistent manner.
sometimes i more or less cruise and sometimes i hammer on it, most of the time it is a combination of both. can we really tune for that? how does this affect those of us who may like to run open loop?
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
So just for my own clarity.. I currently have the FuelMoto supplied map Jaime loaded into the PV when it was shipped flashed to the bike, and that is what I am going to run the AT Basic on to get the VE table as dialed in as possible. This will give me the closest tune leveraging the 14.6 cruise range and NB sensors.
Then as I understand importing a map process, when I import the PCIII map from a file saved on my computer.. first I want to "layer" that map on top of the STOCK TUNE When I flash this, it will essentially put me in open loop. (not 14.6 in cruise range, a compare I just did confirms this) and the VE tables and many negative numbers in them in the -12 to -30 range. Mainly the -20 in the cruise range.
Would I then want to do a AT Basic again? Or, since I'm not in a 14.6 mode would that do any good?
Hope this makes sense?
Last edited by oldhippie; May 16, 2013 at 06:14 PM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
When starting out tuning you are just trying to get the VE values adjusted for your engine. You need to ride in different manners to hit different regions of the map. There is really no need to ride consistently. That isn't the point. The point is to cover as much of the map as you can. I would suggest that at least one run be done just like you normally ride. Normally I try to do one last run in my normal manner. Once the VE values are set (settled down) you can set the AFR to open loop values and the ECM has the right information to deliver the right amount of fuel for the AFR value you request at any given spot on the map. Setting the VE value is like teaching the map how "your" bike breathes. Once they are set, you have the basis for a good tune. Hope that is helpful
Maybe it should be imported over the initial tune that I just did the AT Basic on? Since that's where the VE tables got adjusted.
I'm only confused because somewhere in a way early thread I think I read iclick tell me that importing a PC map should be done on a stock ECM base layer tune?
From the PV Help file.
To Import a Power Commander Map File (.pvm;.djm)
1 Make sure you have a tune loaded.
You must have a copy of the original tune loaded before importing a Power Commander map file.
2 Select Tune Info from the Tune Items manager and click Description.
If the Strategy is 9, 44, or 218, the Power Commander map file will not import. When the existing VE tables are RPM versus MAP (KPA), you will not be able to import Power Commander map files. The example below shows a strategy of 9 and will not work when importing a Power Commander map file.
Last edited by oldhippie; May 16, 2013 at 06:52 AM.
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Joe Kucinski
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
Finally got to do some autotuning. Ran three, 15-20 minute sessions.
Now the big question, what does this mean? The first two files are the front and rear VE values. The third and fourth files are the Delta values compared to the original FuelMoto map that was loaded on my Powervision. There are obviously some differences in the numbers, as well as cell colors (some seem major), so if someone can look at these and see if it looks ok I would greatly appreciate it!
The bike runs great but does have some decal popping when going down a steep hill and letting off the throttle.
Autotune Front VE
Autotune Rear VE
These two are the Delta comparisons using the original FuelMoto Map that came on my Powervision
Delta Front VE
Delta Rear VE
Now the big question, what does this mean? The first two files are the front and rear VE values. The third and fourth files are the Delta values compared to the original FuelMoto map that was loaded on my Powervision. There are obviously some differences in the numbers, as well as cell colors (some seem major), so if someone can look at these and see if it looks ok I would greatly appreciate it!
The bike runs great but does have some decal popping when going down a steep hill and letting off the throttle.
Autotune Front VE
Autotune Rear VE
These two are the Delta comparisons using the original FuelMoto Map that came on my Powervision
Delta Front VE
Delta Rear VE
Both myself and my friend go out and do tune runs together. Then we look at each map. We both had some cells that seem to drop or raise 10 to 15% at first. As we did some more runs thoes changes get smaller. Both of us have stock heads and both have a dip in the exact same area. So what im trying to say is your going in the right direction and dont worry. i was where you are now and all turned out good.
The decel pop happens to many. It did not happen to me, i just got some gurgle. As many have posted the same question it seems there is always the same answers. You have a decel enleanment table you can adjust in the rpm range where the pop is....
or....i have seen some here change the timing to get rid of decel pop....or some add fuel in the A/F table. The 0Kpa range. I think all three have had good results for the end users so it is a crap shoot as to how you want to handel it. If this is your first AT run i would not worry about the decel pop until you get a few more runs in. The AT runs might correct it for you.
run the bike up to lets say 4000rpm and let off the throttle. What you will probably see on your powervision green screen is, once you let off the throttle and just coast, the 0 kpa colum will start registering hits. This may add VE in the range you have your decell pop and make it calm down.
hope i explained good enough. Give it a shot and some time.
Last edited by Boston Chris; May 16, 2013 at 01:21 PM.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,392
Likes: 184
From: Big ol Titties
Yeah I think all the Dynajet tunes for my 08 softail were PC imported, nothing wrong with PC inport tunes at all. My previous post was more addressing his concerns about the heat issues he was talking about, I do belive that auto tuning his PC3 import would be a good starting point and yield the best results. It just might not have the cooling effects he desires.