Power Vision Information Thread
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,274
Likes: 130
From: Now Western TN
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 180
Likes: 36
From: Western PA
Received my new Powervision from Fuel Moto today, downloaded the map they preloaded went for a twenty-five mile ride this eve and finally "the decel pop" is gone! Now I need to learn about this thing after looking over alot of the posts on this, it is a little confusing reading about VE tables etc. Hopefully I won't need an engineering degree to understand how it all works.
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
From: Anchorage, Alaska
So I have a question for for all the guys that have been working with the PV for awhile.
From what I have read running the AT with this setup is getting my VE's dialed in for my build at stoich. So basically I am calibrating the VE's to my specific bike.
Now comes the questions, once I have that so the VE's are not varying more than 4-5%......
1) How do I disable closed loop? I have heard 2 ways, either disable closed loop in the PV for that tune, OR, set my AFR's outside the closed loop range, so that would mean setting all the 14.6 cells so say 14.2 (I think).
2) What happens if I change the AFR's, say down to 14.2, I think from what I have read is now the VE's are calibrated, that the ECM will just do it's work and adjust the fuel to meet those AFR's based on the air volume it gets from the VE's/Engine displacement. Is that correct?
3) If #2 is correct and I adjust the AFR's to get to Open Loop, should this be done before or after I doing any timing runs? I would think before, but want to ask.
I need to disable Closed Loop because I am keeping the WB sensors in and I don't have any termination in the stock O2 cables, so I don't want it running in closed loop.
From what I have read running the AT with this setup is getting my VE's dialed in for my build at stoich. So basically I am calibrating the VE's to my specific bike.
Now comes the questions, once I have that so the VE's are not varying more than 4-5%......
1) How do I disable closed loop? I have heard 2 ways, either disable closed loop in the PV for that tune, OR, set my AFR's outside the closed loop range, so that would mean setting all the 14.6 cells so say 14.2 (I think).
2) What happens if I change the AFR's, say down to 14.2, I think from what I have read is now the VE's are calibrated, that the ECM will just do it's work and adjust the fuel to meet those AFR's based on the air volume it gets from the VE's/Engine displacement. Is that correct?
3) If #2 is correct and I adjust the AFR's to get to Open Loop, should this be done before or after I doing any timing runs? I would think before, but want to ask.
I need to disable Closed Loop because I am keeping the WB sensors in and I don't have any termination in the stock O2 cables, so I don't want it running in closed loop.
Setting the AFR outside of closed loop range does that for that table location.
If you were running with narrow sensors in (I have dual, narrow and wide in each pipe) you would have the option of leaving closed loop on in the cruise range and setting richer everywhere else.
I have a closed loop map that is 14.4 in the "nearly flat 50 - 70mph" range of rpm/map locations, then 13.8 for most of the table and 12.6 for the high load areas.
I also have a table with closed loop disabled and the leanest parts of the table are 13.6
The only critical bit here is (in my opinion) "Don't run lean with closed loop off!".
The ECM will attempt to compensate for air pressure and temp, but it is not perfect and fuel varies.
The last thing you need is a target of say 14.4 with closed loop off. Map the VEs with real gas and get some "10% ethl" that has been overmixed and is actually closer to 20%, or map at 4000 ft at 110F and switch to sea level at 40F and you could actually me running 14.8:1 or worst....
Running closed loop when close to stoich is important since you have little room to lean out.
Personally, I do not run closed loop any higher that 14.2:1, and I would drop that to 13.8 if high temps or questionable gas might be possible. My road trip/std table is that 14.4 cruise area map.
In your case if you leave our the narrow sensors, turn off closed loop via the global flag (or get eliminators if you don't have the closed loop disable flag) and keep the lack of near real-time auto-compensation in mind when you pick the leanest values for your map.
Cruiser
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 210
Likes: 0
From: Pacific NW
Just a quick update from my posts about 6 weeks ago. Jamie helped me out by modifying the resultant map after approximately 11 AT runs. He did some AFR target smoothing as well in the process. The new tune ran fairly well, but the decel popping is still there in very specific spots. I've run 7 more runs at this point - deltas still not settling in very well (probably due to my hitting new cells and the temperatures changing quite a bit here from day to day).
Anyway, I've sent "session 18" to Jamie for another round of trying to target the specific decel popping areas before continuing the tuning process. Frankly, I was hoping to not have to make 20+ autotuning runs to get VE deltas inside of 3-5%.
Oh well - ce'st la vie
Anyway, I've sent "session 18" to Jamie for another round of trying to target the specific decel popping areas before continuing the tuning process. Frankly, I was hoping to not have to make 20+ autotuning runs to get VE deltas inside of 3-5%.
Oh well - ce'st la vie
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 16,271
Likes: 15,108
From: Somewhere SW
Mine is a 2013 and it was switched off when I bought the bike new, I went into the tune and turned it on. My inner thighs are quite happy now
I have a power vision on my 2011 flhx. I have no local tuners that will work with it. Seems I am forced to go with the SERT from Harley for my dyno since I did a 107 build. Is there a process I need to follow to remove power vision and now use SERT to be accepted by the bikes ECM. ? I tried dynojet but I'm always put on hold 20-30 mins and more. I'm fed up. I did install a canned map from Jamie since I purchased the PV just about three years ago but bike runs rough and I'm sure needs dyno tuning...
Tourer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 347
Likes: 5
From: Corpus Christi, Texas
I just finished up a 98" build on my 06 Ultra Classic. I ordered the Power Vision from Fuel Moto a couple months ago but changed my mind about the build components a couple times and now the tune he sent me is not running well at all. I guess I will wait until tomorrow and give him a call so I can get a better base map to work off of. I am running the wideband o2 sensors. Is there any advice anyone can give me or should I just wait and talk to Jamie?
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I just finished up a 98" build on my 06 Ultra Classic. I ordered the Power Vision from Fuel Moto a couple months ago but changed my mind about the build components a couple times and now the tune he sent me is not running well at all. I guess I will wait until tomorrow and give him a call so I can get a better base map to work off of. I am running the wideband o2 sensors. Is there any advice anyone can give me or should I just wait and talk to Jamie?
He will be most able to set ya up !
Just a quick update from my posts about 6 weeks ago. Jamie helped me out by modifying the resultant map after approximately 11 AT runs. He did some AFR target smoothing as well in the process. The new tune ran fairly well, but the decel popping is still there in very specific spots. I've run 7 more runs at this point - deltas still not settling in very well (probably due to my hitting new cells and the temperatures changing quite a bit here from day to day).
Anyway, I've sent "session 18" to Jamie for another round of trying to target the specific decel popping areas before continuing the tuning process. Frankly, I was hoping to not have to make 20+ autotuning runs to get VE deltas inside of 3-5%.
Oh well - ce'st la vie
Anyway, I've sent "session 18" to Jamie for another round of trying to target the specific decel popping areas before continuing the tuning process. Frankly, I was hoping to not have to make 20+ autotuning runs to get VE deltas inside of 3-5%.
Oh well - ce'st la vie
Make sure you don't have exhaust leaks also.