Power Vision Information Thread
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,368
Likes: 27
From: Australia
Jaimie - thanks for taking the time to respond.. This only came up because I keep seeing the knock counter for the front cylinder register a much higher ratio of events when compared to the rear. I interpreted this as "somethings not normal". It is giving me a great opportunity to learn how to analyze the logs. I'm not sure as I understand the value assigned to "Spark Knock F" by megalogviewer, as it's expressed in degrees, but on a strip chart view it steps up staircase fashion. I've assumed that it's degrees of rotation, probably wrong. Note that when looking at spark advance on the chart it is always backing down for the duration of the knock event and then returning to the previous level.
Also check your spark plug gap, i remember when i first got Pv and was getting some massive no. Of knock events, i couldnt heAr it but it was registering on the PV
I read on another forum about spark gap and was something i had never checked before on bike, i adjusted and it fixed it
Thanks
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
LA Dog, As others have said the only difference betweeen PV 1&2 is the cable for Rushmore Can Bus wireing.Same software.So try enabling individual guages from the GUAGES menu. I may have been somewhat wrong as in the auto logging function seems like it's set for .pvv values for "tuning" purposes. Whereas the gauges screen has a Log Data button and always saves as .csv for "viewing" purposes and can also be used in LT adjustments.For starters Enable,
ET= Engine Temp
MAP/kpa
RPM
TP% =Throttle Position
Warm up Lambda
Set Lambda
IAT= Intake Air Temp
VE Front
VE Rear
NEW VE Front
NEW VE Rear
Advance Front
Advance Rear
Spark Knock Front
Spark Knock Rear
Acel Enrichment
Decel Enleanment
Front CLI
Rear CLI
Front AFF
Rear AFF
Trip A Economy MPG
Trip A. Distance
VSS=MPH
B+
That will get ya plenty o data to start with, You can also play around with colors and which face to view, some digital some analog. It is a powerful tool and ya just need time to get familiar with it.
Edit: Oh and be aware I'm only familiar with my 2010 Touring, Softails and Rushmores have slight differences, But the theory is the same.
ET= Engine Temp
MAP/kpa
RPM
TP% =Throttle Position
Warm up Lambda
Set Lambda
IAT= Intake Air Temp
VE Front
VE Rear
NEW VE Front
NEW VE Rear
Advance Front
Advance Rear
Spark Knock Front
Spark Knock Rear
Acel Enrichment
Decel Enleanment
Front CLI
Rear CLI
Front AFF
Rear AFF
Trip A Economy MPG
Trip A. Distance
VSS=MPH
B+
That will get ya plenty o data to start with, You can also play around with colors and which face to view, some digital some analog. It is a powerful tool and ya just need time to get familiar with it.
Edit: Oh and be aware I'm only familiar with my 2010 Touring, Softails and Rushmores have slight differences, But the theory is the same.
Last edited by Smokey Stover; Apr 13, 2015 at 09:29 AM.
You are correct and that was my mistake for not being familiar with the software- the VE's are different between all of them, and I'm understanding now that having VE correct is key. Everything else though is 100% the same among these map files. None of these maps are for my specific set of pipes, yet I have different DJ techs saying use different files such as the one for Rinehart, Big Shots, and telling me 'oh they are all similar and do the same thing'- which tells me, they don't think VE matters all that much and neither does accurate tuning. Very disappointing from my side, is all I'm saying.
This may be correct for your PV units and accompanying software, but is incorrect for the new PV-2 unit I bought, updated with latest firmware and running latest WinPV software from DJ's site. I have no doubt there is a way to change the logging file to csv for export, and I already understand that pvv is referenced as a value file.
Running though DJ's instructions on starting logging, the default process I encountered with the PV-2 when I exported the captured logged data through WinPV's "get log" operation, WinPV saved it with a pvv file extension. The DJ guide shows it being exported as a csv. I can't tell why my unit, by default, chose to save it as a pvv. The log settings in the PV2 were set to simple and not "pro-xy"
I eventually figured out how to open the pvv in WinPV using the "load values" menu option, but again, I have no idea why the PV-2 would export logged data in a pvv format. I was data logging and not auto tuning.
You may want to grab a new default unit with the latest firmware to see this oddity.
Running though DJ's instructions on starting logging, the default process I encountered with the PV-2 when I exported the captured logged data through WinPV's "get log" operation, WinPV saved it with a pvv file extension. The DJ guide shows it being exported as a csv. I can't tell why my unit, by default, chose to save it as a pvv. The log settings in the PV2 were set to simple and not "pro-xy"
I eventually figured out how to open the pvv in WinPV using the "load values" menu option, but again, I have no idea why the PV-2 would export logged data in a pvv format. I was data logging and not auto tuning.
You may want to grab a new default unit with the latest firmware to see this oddity.
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Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
Jamie to the rescue, The Log Files should be sent/saved to your Log File Folder, Not Value Folder. Just in case they're there but can't find em. If you created the folders in Documents they will go there. If you didn't, Try looking in Program Files/Power Vision/....
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 55
From: Florida
One more thing while it's on my mind. Be sure to Open the tune your working with in WinPV/Plug in PV, and use the "Update Tune using PV"(from the PowerVision dropdown menu) just to be sure you have all the available item/folders in your WinPV tune tree.
Last edited by Smokey Stover; Apr 13, 2015 at 10:17 AM. Reason: spellin
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
Smokey, you are right on the money - this is what I have been trying to explain. By default, the pvv is created after the logging session. I can chalk this up to lack of documentation in the PV guide doc, which is severely lacking in covering how many of the features and menu items actually work. Anyone new to PV2 and running this will probably run into the same issue. I will go back next time and log directly from one of the gauges menus, set gauge items, per your list. Thanks that was very helpful.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 3,185
Likes: 189
From: 90210
There is nothing wrong with the info you were given, because there are endless possibilities for exhaust combinations there is no textbook correct answer as to which system & base map would be the closest to yours, they are both different but will both work as a starting point. Realistically on a bike with stock cams & bore with an exhaust/intake swap you could even develop your VE tables with the factory calibration using Auto Tune it would just take a few more sessions. There are however quite a few other tables that are changed and optimized in a PV calibration, and in some cases there are things that are touched up and repaired in the code.
I work with in the hundreds of files per week week and rely on the software & logs, have never ran into this issue. A .pvv is a value file populated from an auto tune session, a .csv is a log. If there is not a saved .csv there something went wrong along the way. Here is a screenshot of a log in WinPv using Get Log, this is latest firmare/software.
Last edited by LA_Dog; Apr 13, 2015 at 10:48 AM.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 743
Likes: 66
From: TX and WI
This is where buying from FuelMoto would have been a major value add for you as they would have preloaded a custom map that would have been pretty close to right on. But, the good news is you can still get there from here pretty easily.
The canned maps they mentioned will be a decent starting point.
I would strongly suggest watching the YOutube PV videos for Loading a custom tune, and also the one for Autotuning. I seriously doubt you have bum PV, much more likely you missed a step in the process.
Power Vision's Auto Tune - YouTube
Make sure after you flash the custom tune, that you run Autotune and then press the Datalog button. You'll get the green screen cell map that you can monitor. Try it again, I'll bet it works. You will see the cells taking hits on the screen as you sit in neutral and rev the engine.
You'll need to run a few of these, and iteratively flash them into your ECM and do the process again. Each time you will get closer and closer to your bike's VE tables. You'll feel the bike getting smoother as you do a few of these.
Now, the suggestions for your decel popping. You can load that first custom tune you have to WinPV and open it, and set the Decel Enleanment 10% and I think he is just referring to the 0% throttle for the +3 degrees decel spark. (?) although I don't have a PV2 so my older PV may not have that table. I've got an older bike. But you can set these at anytime, you don't need to do the ATs to set these decel adjustments.
I've talked to these guys at BikeWeeks. they are understaffed, over-worked, and usually some of them are off at a BikeWeek or a show someplace doing show or tech support. But they are good guys and helpful.
Seriously, this is where FuelMoto shines, with custom tunes and after the fact support, but we'll get you through it.
Keep smiling, you have an awesome ride! The PV takes a bit of practice to get good with it, as it is a complex tool for a complex job, but it is a great tool once you get to know it. Stick around and have some patience.
The canned maps they mentioned will be a decent starting point.
I would strongly suggest watching the YOutube PV videos for Loading a custom tune, and also the one for Autotuning. I seriously doubt you have bum PV, much more likely you missed a step in the process.
Power Vision's Auto Tune - YouTube
Make sure after you flash the custom tune, that you run Autotune and then press the Datalog button. You'll get the green screen cell map that you can monitor. Try it again, I'll bet it works. You will see the cells taking hits on the screen as you sit in neutral and rev the engine.
You'll need to run a few of these, and iteratively flash them into your ECM and do the process again. Each time you will get closer and closer to your bike's VE tables. You'll feel the bike getting smoother as you do a few of these.
Now, the suggestions for your decel popping. You can load that first custom tune you have to WinPV and open it, and set the Decel Enleanment 10% and I think he is just referring to the 0% throttle for the +3 degrees decel spark. (?) although I don't have a PV2 so my older PV may not have that table. I've got an older bike. But you can set these at anytime, you don't need to do the ATs to set these decel adjustments.
I've talked to these guys at BikeWeeks. they are understaffed, over-worked, and usually some of them are off at a BikeWeek or a show someplace doing show or tech support. But they are good guys and helpful.
Seriously, this is where FuelMoto shines, with custom tunes and after the fact support, but we'll get you through it.
Keep smiling, you have an awesome ride! The PV takes a bit of practice to get good with it, as it is a complex tool for a complex job, but it is a great tool once you get to know it. Stick around and have some patience.
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My screen below looks exactly the same as yours, but, the only file in that list after the logging session was a pvv file. Per Smokey's comments above, it would appear this does indeed happen. Had there been adequate documentation included with the software on the logging menu's options, features and uses this would not be an issue. I'm confident you can recreate this on your PV2 unit as well. I'm sure there is a reason this function exists but without any guides or support on the topic it is unknown.
went to Program Vehicle>Auto Tune>Enable Auto Tune, enabled Auto Tune and shut bike off 10 seconds
Start bike, go to Program Vehicle>Auto Tune and selected Datalog which starts the Auto Tune process (green screen)
With bike running and Auto Tune active (green screen) I then selected Start Log for a brief period, followed by stop log
Exited Auto Tune and selected Export Learned, saved it to a slot in the tune manager
Connected PV to the WinPv software and went to Get Log, both .pvv (value file) and .csv (log) files were there, see screenshot below
If you are not seeing log files there they were not created, I feel you may have missed the step to Start/Stop Logs when you are in the Auto Tune (green) screen, you may have only been selecting Datalog which starts the Auto Tune process. Note you only need to Start/Stop Log if you want to export & review log files, you do not need to do this to run Auto Tune, anytime the green screen is populating data it is building corrections.
Last edited by fuelmoto; Apr 13, 2015 at 11:51 AM.
Do you have to start the Data Log Button. I thought PV would autotune with or without the datalog selected? I have performed Autotune with datalog, and had adjustments made, usually did this during the first Autotune session, then did not data log on the following two runs. Maybe I have not run three successful autotune sessions yet.