starting trouble
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Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2006
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RE: starting trouble.clutch comp tool.
ok just an idea. took crank gear out, but on disassembly the nut didnt take much to break loose. acording to the manual it says to be torqued to 40-45lbs. could this gear have slid causing it to jam and or slip? just another finding
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Houston Texas
RE: starting trouble.clutch comp tool.
That could be the reason it jammed. The gear fits on a square as I recall, so it is not like it is going to come loose unless the entire nut fell off, but yeah, it could have turned just a little off plane and jammed things up. Torque it down to spec and see what that does........pg
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Cruiser
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RE: starting trouble.clutch comp tool.
ok i bought a new spring. put everything back together. now in the one photo it shows the starter crank gear in the position it is in. now should it be in this position with the kick up? the photo is in a prev. post to me. if so im still bound up. argh!! thanks allen
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Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Houston Texas
RE: starting trouble.clutch comp tool.
It sounds like you have installed it correctly.
1) Put the 'notch' in the kick crankshaft in the up position.
2) Place the gear on the square end of the shaft, with the recessed area of the cam gear facing down, and the stop pin located in the end of the groove.
The starter shaft should not bind. If it still binds, then you have no choice but to remove the clutch hub basket and put the starter parts together where you can view everything without the basket being in the way and determine what the heck is binding.
Is there a problem with the groove that the stop pin sits in? I can think of no other reason the start shaft would bind.
Are you sure the shaft thrust plate (on the backside of the case) has not shifted out of place? That could make it bind as well. But other than those two items, I am just about out of ideas...........pg
1) Put the 'notch' in the kick crankshaft in the up position.
2) Place the gear on the square end of the shaft, with the recessed area of the cam gear facing down, and the stop pin located in the end of the groove.
The starter shaft should not bind. If it still binds, then you have no choice but to remove the clutch hub basket and put the starter parts together where you can view everything without the basket being in the way and determine what the heck is binding.
Is there a problem with the groove that the stop pin sits in? I can think of no other reason the start shaft would bind.
Are you sure the shaft thrust plate (on the backside of the case) has not shifted out of place? That could make it bind as well. But other than those two items, I am just about out of ideas...........pg
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Cruiser
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RE: starting trouble.clutch comp tool.
ok this is what i have found. tore it all apart again. i was off about 1/4 turn. so redid it again. found that the kick shaft didnt seem all the way in. with out the stop pin washer i was ok. everything moved fine till i put everything else together. bound up again. now my question is what i did find, is that front sprocket suppose to move free? cuz if so........ its not. everything else is compressed nice and even torque to specs in my book. what a pain to undo all that too. but live and learn!! thanks allen
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Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Houston Texas
RE: starting trouble.clutch comp tool.
There are a few points about your post that I am unclear on:
i was off about 1/4 turn. so redid it again. found that the kick shaft didnt seem all the way in. with out the stop pin washer i was ok.
What do you mean 'without the stop pin washer'? You need to have both the stop pin washer installed, as well as the thrust washer.
i was ok. everything moved fine till i put everything else together. bound up again. now my question is what i did find, is that front sprocket suppose to move free?
The front sprocket is splined to the crankshaft and will not move by itself. So, I do not understand what you are saying here. If things moved until you 'put it all together' I assume you mean bolted on the clutch parts. If that is the case then look to the spacer length being incorrect, or a better chance is that you have bound up the crankshaft gear by having insufficent clearance.........pg
i was off about 1/4 turn. so redid it again. found that the kick shaft didnt seem all the way in. with out the stop pin washer i was ok.
What do you mean 'without the stop pin washer'? You need to have both the stop pin washer installed, as well as the thrust washer.
i was ok. everything moved fine till i put everything else together. bound up again. now my question is what i did find, is that front sprocket suppose to move free?
The front sprocket is splined to the crankshaft and will not move by itself. So, I do not understand what you are saying here. If things moved until you 'put it all together' I assume you mean bolted on the clutch parts. If that is the case then look to the spacer length being incorrect, or a better chance is that you have bound up the crankshaft gear by having insufficent clearance.........pg
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Cruiser
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RE: starting trouble.clutch comp tool.
lets try again. without the thrust plate i can install the crankgear with no problems. but with it the crankshaft wont bolt in. now looks as if a shim is in place and its rubber, unsure tho. it goes into the bushing. now with or with out the thrust plate i still bind up. meaning after putting the clutch all back together. now if i back off the front sprocket it does have movement but still binds up. all in all i think i maybe doing something wrong. now the 1/4 turn was with the flat spot on the shaft and the gear. the fine movement was with the crank gear and the starter rachet gear installed up untill i put the clutch together. i hope this is better sense typing faster than thinking. hard to talk about it without showing.
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From: Houston Texas
RE: starting trouble.clutch comp tool.
Yeah I know, back and forth on the computer is difficult to convey an idea at times.
Looking at the backside of the crankcase:
The rubber crank oil seal goes in first.
Next is the shaft thrust plate.
Then the .007 shim is placed there on the crankshaft......but only if needed!
Then the crankshaft goes into the case.
At this point you should be able to install the crankgear, the lock washer and tighten the nut down fully. The crankshaft should freely rotate after that.
If it is bound, (and you have installed the .007 shim) then the problem is with the clearance not being enough for the nut to be tightened. Remove the .007 shim and try again.
Do all of the above without even putting the starter gear (with spring) into place. You are trying to see where things are binding.
I still do not understand what you say regarding the engine sprocket not having movement until you back off the nut. You want the nut tight as you can get it. You do not want the engine sprocket to move at all, except to turn over the engine.....pg
Looking at the backside of the crankcase:
The rubber crank oil seal goes in first.
Next is the shaft thrust plate.
Then the .007 shim is placed there on the crankshaft......but only if needed!
Then the crankshaft goes into the case.
At this point you should be able to install the crankgear, the lock washer and tighten the nut down fully. The crankshaft should freely rotate after that.
If it is bound, (and you have installed the .007 shim) then the problem is with the clearance not being enough for the nut to be tightened. Remove the .007 shim and try again.
Do all of the above without even putting the starter gear (with spring) into place. You are trying to see where things are binding.
I still do not understand what you say regarding the engine sprocket not having movement until you back off the nut. You want the nut tight as you can get it. You do not want the engine sprocket to move at all, except to turn over the engine.....pg
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Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2006
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RE: starting trouble.clutch comp tool.
ok i need to get a new stop plate. its broken. but got to thinking. i wonder if the original owner had crossed thread the crank shaft end and ended up modifying it. i think this maybe causing my installation issue. is it possible for you to get me the measurment of the length of the kick shaft?
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
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From: Houston Texas
RE: starting trouble.clutch comp tool.
If the stop plate is broken then that may be either a cause or a symptom of your problem. In anycase, replace the stop plate with an unbroken one.
{"is it possible for you to get me the measurment of the length of the kick shaft?"}
Sorry, I have no way to do that, nor do I know what the measurement is. Why do you need that? I doubt the previous owner modified the shaft unless he had a machine shop. The shaft is pretty hard...........pg
{"is it possible for you to get me the measurment of the length of the kick shaft?"}
Sorry, I have no way to do that, nor do I know what the measurement is. Why do you need that? I doubt the previous owner modified the shaft unless he had a machine shop. The shaft is pretty hard...........pg
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