oil leak
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5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2005
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oil leak
i have a 76 xlch. it just started leaking alot of oil out of both rocker covers i replaced the gaskets on both heads and it still leaks any ideas do they warp or crack?
[IMG]local://upfiles/6821/13D766452D524213B606A92D489B0E91.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/6821/13D766452D524213B606A92D489B0E91.jpg[/IMG]
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: oil leak
The rocker box should not warp, because it is bolted down nice and tight. Of course, that is aluminum bolted up to cast iron.
I suggest you do this:
Pull the rocker box off again. Clean both gasket surfaces (head and box) and take a piece of 400 wet/dry paper on a piece of glass or other FLAT surface. Sand the box surface using a figure 8 motion until all is nice and bright. At this point the box is flat. Install and tighten in a cross pattern, much like you would do with a cylinder head.
That should fix your leak, if it was coming from the gasket surfaces.
Behind the 'nuts' covering the rightside ends of each rocker shaft is an 'O' ring. These can leak as well, but you would see the oil trail running down the side of the rocker box.
I suggest you do this:
Pull the rocker box off again. Clean both gasket surfaces (head and box) and take a piece of 400 wet/dry paper on a piece of glass or other FLAT surface. Sand the box surface using a figure 8 motion until all is nice and bright. At this point the box is flat. Install and tighten in a cross pattern, much like you would do with a cylinder head.
That should fix your leak, if it was coming from the gasket surfaces.
Behind the 'nuts' covering the rightside ends of each rocker shaft is an 'O' ring. These can leak as well, but you would see the oil trail running down the side of the rocker box.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: oil leak
I would be stunned if it were cracked heads. That just isn't likely to happen.
Where is the highest point that you find oil on the engine? At the rocker box gasket?
Oil flows up through those small external lines that terminate beneath the rocker box.
The oil then flows through the length of the rocker arm(s) and dumps into the rocker box. There are two small holes in each head that allow some of this oil to drain down through the heads and cylinder. These two passages terminate at the base of the cylinder with holes in the cylinder letting oil lubricate the piston, cylinder and rings and the main bearings.
Most of the rocker box oil drains down the lifter tubes lubricating push rods, tappets and rollers.
That is it.
The only place you could have a leak is the rocker box gasket, and possibly at the cylinder head and cylinder if you had a bad head gasket. But in that case, you are not going to see any oil way up above on the rocker box.
If it is a massive leak, it should be easy to find where it is coming from. Gunk the engine fully to get rid of all the oil. Start it up and look at where you see oil first appear. There is your leak.
Where is the highest point that you find oil on the engine? At the rocker box gasket?
Oil flows up through those small external lines that terminate beneath the rocker box.
The oil then flows through the length of the rocker arm(s) and dumps into the rocker box. There are two small holes in each head that allow some of this oil to drain down through the heads and cylinder. These two passages terminate at the base of the cylinder with holes in the cylinder letting oil lubricate the piston, cylinder and rings and the main bearings.
Most of the rocker box oil drains down the lifter tubes lubricating push rods, tappets and rollers.
That is it.
The only place you could have a leak is the rocker box gasket, and possibly at the cylinder head and cylinder if you had a bad head gasket. But in that case, you are not going to see any oil way up above on the rocker box.
If it is a massive leak, it should be easy to find where it is coming from. Gunk the engine fully to get rid of all the oil. Start it up and look at where you see oil first appear. There is your leak.
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5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2005
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From:
RE: oil leak
You were right heads are fine.The leak is not coming from heads. The push rod tubes are filling up and splashing on to the heads and leaking down. So with that figured out what would causing my push rod tubes to fill up and pump out.I checked the oil presure spring it was a little short the book said 1 15/16" it was 1 3/4".I dont have oil coming out my crankcase breather and there is oil returning to the bag but there is alot of oil coming up the push rod tubes.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: oil leak
bigfish.....first I am glad to hear that your heads are healthy and doing well.
What I think is going on here is this:
You have replaced the rocker box gaskets, so that means you have had the pushrod tubes collasped as well.
Did you put brand new cork washers in the pushrod tubes? I bet that you did not.
Each tube takes 3 cork washers. One goes on the lifter base. One goes on top of the upper tube. One goes on top of the lower tube. The one on the top of the lower tube is located in the middle of the overall assembled pushrod tube and has a metal washer on top of it. On top of that metal washer is the cover spring.
You need new cork washers and you need to seat them properly. I think that is going to fix the leak. The oil in the tubes is under almost no pressure. It is a gravity fall down to the lifter base. The cork dries out over time and will still prevent leaks until it is disturbed, which is what you did.
As for the oil pump: You are referring to the spring that lies behind the oil pressure switch (sending unit)? If so, this is actually the check valve spring. It holds a ball against the oil pump body to prevent your oil tank from draining down into the crankcase when the engine is not running.
When the engine starts, the oil pump pressure pushes against the ball, lifting it off it's seat and compressing the spring somewhat. Oil is then pumped into the crankshaft end. Doublecheck your book again. I think you will find the spring dimension reads 1- 15/64 inch.
FYI: If your bike ever sits for a long time without being started, and then when you crank it up oil pukes out the breather tube, do this: buy a new spring and ball. Put the new ball into the pump tunnel. Using a flat nose punch and a small hammer, tap the ball in with the punch. This forms a new 'seat' for the new ball. Install the spring and sender unit.
What I think is going on here is this:
You have replaced the rocker box gaskets, so that means you have had the pushrod tubes collasped as well.
Did you put brand new cork washers in the pushrod tubes? I bet that you did not.
Each tube takes 3 cork washers. One goes on the lifter base. One goes on top of the upper tube. One goes on top of the lower tube. The one on the top of the lower tube is located in the middle of the overall assembled pushrod tube and has a metal washer on top of it. On top of that metal washer is the cover spring.
You need new cork washers and you need to seat them properly. I think that is going to fix the leak. The oil in the tubes is under almost no pressure. It is a gravity fall down to the lifter base. The cork dries out over time and will still prevent leaks until it is disturbed, which is what you did.
As for the oil pump: You are referring to the spring that lies behind the oil pressure switch (sending unit)? If so, this is actually the check valve spring. It holds a ball against the oil pump body to prevent your oil tank from draining down into the crankcase when the engine is not running.
When the engine starts, the oil pump pressure pushes against the ball, lifting it off it's seat and compressing the spring somewhat. Oil is then pumped into the crankshaft end. Doublecheck your book again. I think you will find the spring dimension reads 1- 15/64 inch.
FYI: If your bike ever sits for a long time without being started, and then when you crank it up oil pukes out the breather tube, do this: buy a new spring and ball. Put the new ball into the pump tunnel. Using a flat nose punch and a small hammer, tap the ball in with the punch. This forms a new 'seat' for the new ball. Install the spring and sender unit.
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5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2005
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From:
RE: oil leak
pinion. ..thank you for your info i really appreciate it. But the leak started before i changed the rocker box gasket and i did change the cork in on and under the push rod tubes. The top cork does not fit tight around the push rod but the one i took out didnt fit tight either. Are the corks supposed to fit snug. I am stumped. Like you said the tubes should not have that much pressure. Where does the oil for the tappets come from. Does the oil pump have a direct feed to them or is it a splash system. Could my breather screen be cloged or the breather shaft out of time.The bike was completely rebuilt last year at a local shop. It only has about 200 miles on. I run 50w in it and have changed oil once at about 100 miles. It has been sitting since april only because i was in alaska fishing.
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: oil leak
bigfish....The cork does not fit tight on the pushrod. The upper and lower corks are 'trapped' in position by the recess in the rocker box above and the recess in the tappet base at the bottom. The cork is the same diameter as the flared end(s) of the pushrod tube. The rocker box has a counterbored recess that the cork goes into. This and the cork are the same diameter. The push rod tube with the flared end(s) is positioned against the cork.
After compressing the spring, you insert the keeper and spring tension keeps the corks tight (at both ends of the tube and where the upper and lower tubes join in the middle). Well, sorry, you know this because you replaced the corks.
If the corks are not positioned nice and flat into that recess(es), it will leak oil.
The oil coming into the tubes comes from the rocker box. It simply falls out of a hole(s) on the box bottom and drains into each tube. The system is a splash system entirely. Sorry about this explanation, it must sound confusing.
I think your breather timing is fine. Were it not, oil would puke out of the breather tube. If you need a clearer explanation, then email and I will reply with a PDF file attached that will explain the entire procedure. It will make more sense that I do.............piniongear
wb_perry@yahoo.com
After compressing the spring, you insert the keeper and spring tension keeps the corks tight (at both ends of the tube and where the upper and lower tubes join in the middle). Well, sorry, you know this because you replaced the corks.
If the corks are not positioned nice and flat into that recess(es), it will leak oil.
The oil coming into the tubes comes from the rocker box. It simply falls out of a hole(s) on the box bottom and drains into each tube. The system is a splash system entirely. Sorry about this explanation, it must sound confusing.
I think your breather timing is fine. Were it not, oil would puke out of the breather tube. If you need a clearer explanation, then email and I will reply with a PDF file attached that will explain the entire procedure. It will make more sense that I do.............piniongear
wb_perry@yahoo.com
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Thread Starter
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5th Gear
Joined: Dec 2005
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From:
RE: oil leak
pinion...thanks now i am getting closer to the problem. I am confident the corks are fine as it does not leak at the bottom of the tubes. Now i need to figure out if i have to much oil (dripping?) out of the head or not evacuating the tube and filling it up.
[IMG]local://upfiles/6821/1180A649A48447528221DA2B98FFCF63.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/6821/1180A649A48447528221DA2B98FFCF63.jpg[/IMG]
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,035
Likes: 17
From: Houston Texas
RE: oil leak
bigfish.....You are probably getting the leak at the upper cork(s) where the tubes seat into the rocker boxes. This is where I have always found the leaks to occur. This is due to having to fight gravity no doubt, and the corks sometimes do not seat properly.
You cannot have too much oil coming into the tubes. Whatever is pumped through the rocker shafts is going to collect in the rocker box and drain by gravity into the tubes. Let's assume for a second that your tubes were to fill up with oil. Remember this oil is under no pressure. The corks will not let the oil leak, were they properly seated. The only way they could fill is if the oil is not draining into the tappets and then onto the cams below. You would hear bad noises fast, were that to happen. Trust me, you just have some corks that are not seating.
You cannot have too much oil coming into the tubes. Whatever is pumped through the rocker shafts is going to collect in the rocker box and drain by gravity into the tubes. Let's assume for a second that your tubes were to fill up with oil. Remember this oil is under no pressure. The corks will not let the oil leak, were they properly seated. The only way they could fill is if the oil is not draining into the tappets and then onto the cams below. You would hear bad noises fast, were that to happen. Trust me, you just have some corks that are not seating.