2018 M8----Sumping? Failures?
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 89
Likes: 4
From: Md
Got mine back Friday, finished break in and then will take in for a 1k oil change and re-tune. So far my 18 sumped twice, 1st time they replaced with latest version oil pump. Second sumping fried the engine. Have 700 miles on it varying the RPMs and not hitting it hard until after the tune. I gotta admit I’m extremely hesitant to go beyond 3500 because the down time from my 2 issues just isn’t worth it. First time 2 weeks and most recently just shy of 2 months. I have the feuling race pump kit in it just to have a better pump. I haven’t a clue if it’ll make a difference, but I had to make some change because I have no confidence in Harley’s oil pump with a Stage 4 107.
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,382
Likes: 404
From: Illinois
Got mine back Friday, finished break in and then will take in for a 1k oil change and re-tune. So far my 18 sumped twice, 1st time they replaced with latest version oil pump. Second sumping fried the engine. Have 700 miles on it varying the RPMs and not hitting it hard until after the tune. I gotta admit Im extremely hesitant to go beyond 3500 because the down time from my 2 issues just isnt worth it. First time 2 weeks and most recently just shy of 2 months. I have the feuling race pump kit in it just to have a better pump. I havent a clue if itll make a difference, but I had to make some change because I have no confidence in Harleys oil pump with a Stage 4 107.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
Before you read my post keep in mind Im not some internet wacko posting BS just because I have no lif. Ive been in clubs for 20+ years and what Ive posted below is real feedback
1. This is my5th HD bagger since 2005
2. I ride 15k miles a year, Im very experienced and knowledge owner
3. Last November I dropped almost $50k on my dream bike. 2018 RGS with CVO stereo, Legend suspension and HD Stage IV installed upgrade. 4. In the first 1500 miles HD has replaced 4 long blocks under warranty. Each time oiling problems ran the pistons, cylinders and lifter bores in the case dry, major slumping issues and over heating cooked the engine. Ive used up my AAA towing plan sending this bike back for warranty work. The factory area senior technician got involved and he has personally supervised the past 2-motors. The forth engine replacement so far has 300 miles on it and so far so good. I honestly am driving in 5-mile circles around my house putting miles on it. Im only 90% confident they nailed it this time. Senior technician assured me if this dont fix it they are going to buy the bike back.
This is has been a nightmare and Ive learned a few things Id like to share. Do not modify your bike with a aftermarket tuner or exhaust if you plan on getting warranty work done. They looked it over with a microscope trying to find a evidence of any mods. The senior told me if he saw evidence or a tuner he would have immediately flagged my bike and voided my warranty. He said there is not a tuner made that they cannot detect if. If you change the exhaust make sure you put the stock one back before sending it to the dealer. Dont listen to your dealer when they say they will honor your warranty if modified. It dont mean **** if the factory decides to investigate.
The stage IV makes fantastic torque and hp numbers with a SEPST and high flow screaming eagle exhaust. It sounds like **** but the performance is great. I had the bike on the dyno with a D&D exhaust and SE exhaust. The torque and hp numbers are almost identical. The only difference is sound and a voideed warranty. Not worth it. If anyone wants to give me $-300 for the $1800 D&D exhaust its yours. I love the sound but the chance of breaking down away from my garage and having to tow it to a dealer for a warranty work aint worth it. The motor company is investigating every Stage IV engine failure under warranty. They will ruin your day and stick you with a $10k bill.
Im reaching out to help other Stage IV owners who think otherwise. Until the motor company figures out why these engines are failing the are investigating.
If if you have any further questions hit me up
1. This is my5th HD bagger since 2005
2. I ride 15k miles a year, Im very experienced and knowledge owner
3. Last November I dropped almost $50k on my dream bike. 2018 RGS with CVO stereo, Legend suspension and HD Stage IV installed upgrade. 4. In the first 1500 miles HD has replaced 4 long blocks under warranty. Each time oiling problems ran the pistons, cylinders and lifter bores in the case dry, major slumping issues and over heating cooked the engine. Ive used up my AAA towing plan sending this bike back for warranty work. The factory area senior technician got involved and he has personally supervised the past 2-motors. The forth engine replacement so far has 300 miles on it and so far so good. I honestly am driving in 5-mile circles around my house putting miles on it. Im only 90% confident they nailed it this time. Senior technician assured me if this dont fix it they are going to buy the bike back.
This is has been a nightmare and Ive learned a few things Id like to share. Do not modify your bike with a aftermarket tuner or exhaust if you plan on getting warranty work done. They looked it over with a microscope trying to find a evidence of any mods. The senior told me if he saw evidence or a tuner he would have immediately flagged my bike and voided my warranty. He said there is not a tuner made that they cannot detect if. If you change the exhaust make sure you put the stock one back before sending it to the dealer. Dont listen to your dealer when they say they will honor your warranty if modified. It dont mean **** if the factory decides to investigate.
The stage IV makes fantastic torque and hp numbers with a SEPST and high flow screaming eagle exhaust. It sounds like **** but the performance is great. I had the bike on the dyno with a D&D exhaust and SE exhaust. The torque and hp numbers are almost identical. The only difference is sound and a voideed warranty. Not worth it. If anyone wants to give me $-300 for the $1800 D&D exhaust its yours. I love the sound but the chance of breaking down away from my garage and having to tow it to a dealer for a warranty work aint worth it. The motor company is investigating every Stage IV engine failure under warranty. They will ruin your day and stick you with a $10k bill.
Im reaching out to help other Stage IV owners who think otherwise. Until the motor company figures out why these engines are failing the are investigating.
If if you have any further questions hit me up
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,747
Likes: 419
From: Vermont
Any motor that lets go in anything from a PETERBILT to a Harley should have been pulled .in a Harley trans too...period . Real engine builders would never patch a blown up motor 4 times in a row......That's why u toss the warranty in the garbage if you want to play with the BIG boys.
For how much time you spend on 4-5 forums and utube bitching......maybe should have been standing in the work area day after day.
hope it's all fixed now but I think I would be calling Jamie or hillside or Dan Vance for a real performance piece. Not some cobbled together mess.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,923
Likes: 8,027
From: poway
I bet you both learned a valuable lesson.......going to modify your brand new CVO motor? ( any bike motor really) Go find a REAL engine builder not some chrome installer at a dealer. Even if you find a good tech at a dealer his hands are tied and probably wouldn't build the crap he is at his own home shop. 6-10grand will buy you one hell of a motor built by a competent guy like fuel moto or hillside or many more.plus your up and running in a couple weeks and not sitting in the net bitching. You play the dumb *** stage game ?it's a gimmic and always has been for the unknowing to sell and buy crap bolt on performance kits that are a joke. Lot like the 1950s with the guys running around selling 1/4 race 1/2 race 3/4 race cams.....laughable if you do any engine work.
Any motor that lets go in anything from a PETERBILT to a Harley should have been pulled .in a Harley trans too...period . Real engine builders would never patch a blown up motor 4 times in a row......That's why u toss the warranty in the garbage if you want to play with the BIG boys.
For how much time you spend on 4-5 forums and utube bitching......maybe should have been standing in the work area day after day.
hope it's all fixed now but I think I would be calling Jamie or hillside or Dan Vance for a real performance piece. Not some cobbled together mess.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
I bet you both learned a valuable lesson.......going to modify your brand new CVO motor? ( any bike motor really) Go find a REAL engine builder not some chrome installer at a dealer. Even if you find a good tech at a dealer his hands are tied and probably wouldn't build the crap he is at his own home shop. 6-10grand will buy you one hell of a motor built by a competent guy like fuel moto or hillside or many more.plus your up and running in a couple weeks and not sitting in the net bitching. You play the dumb *** stage game ?it's a gimmic and always has been for the unknowing to sell and buy crap bolt on performance kits that are a joke. Lot like the 1950s with the guys running around selling 1/4 race 1/2 race 3/4 race cams.....laughable if you do any engine work.
Any motor that lets go in anything from a PETERBILT to a Harley should have been pulled .in a Harley trans too...period . Real engine builders would never patch a blown up motor 4 times in a row......That's why u toss the warranty in the garbage if you want to play with the BIG boys.
For how much time you spend on 4-5 forums and utube bitching......maybe should have been standing in the work area day after day.
hope it's all fixed now but I think I would be calling Jamie or hillside or Dan Vance for a real performance piece. Not some cobbled together mess.
Times are changing. The lesson I learned, I’m afraid to say, is to stick to an all HD build for the first 2 yrs of the factory warranty. I personally believe many, or at least “some”, of the 2017/18 engine cases are very susceptible to sumping. After 7 oil pump designs, it should be clear to anyone that has personally experienced sumping with multiple replaced engines, that the oil pump is a bandaid to a bigger design issue. At a cost of $10-12k for each of my 4 engines, I’m glad I had my factory warranty.
If I was doing it all over, I would still do the Stage IV kit with all factory parts to keep my warranty intact. At the end of 2 yr, I would switch out the Cam (Woods), switch out the exhaust, and use a PV to tune the bike. But to all those reading, trust me, my inbox is full of guys with voided warranties that sadly are in a predicament. Don’t do it, is my recommendation at least until the factory warranty is expired. But to each his own and good luck with whatever path you follow. I’ve been down all of them.
Last edited by Heatwave; Jul 8, 2018 at 11:57 AM.
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Lol. That's definitely not the lesson learned my friend. My other bike has a Hillside build and Ive worked with Scott for many years. I was also one of the first guys using a PV and had my bike personally tuned by Jamie at FM.
Times are changing. The lesson I learned, Im afraid to say, is to stick to an all HD build for the first 2 yrs of the factory warranty. I personally believe many, or at least some, of the 2017/18 engine cases are very susceptible to sumping. After 7 oil pump designs, it should be clear to anyone that has personally experienced sumping with multiple replaced engines, that the oil pump is a bandaid to a bigger design issue. At a cost of $10-12k for each of my 4 engines, Im glad I had my factory warranty.
If I was doing it all over, I would still do the Stage IV kit with all factory parts to keep my warranty intact. At the end of 2 yr, I would switch out the Cam (Woods), switch out the exhaust, and use a PV to tune the bike. But to all those reading, trust me, my inbox is full of guys with voided warranties that sadly are in a predicament. Dont do it, is my recommendation at least until the factory warranty is expired. But to each his own and good luck with whatever path you follow. Ive been down all of them.