Undetectable tuner
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 268
From: People's Republic of Boulder Colorado
100% true dat! My little '94 Dyna is a great bike. The EVO's were the best motors the MoCo ever produced.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 268
From: People's Republic of Boulder Colorado
Actually, its not the MoCo. The MoCo lost a lawsuit brought by the EPA. The EPA fined the MoCo heavily. The EPA is forcing the MoCo to follow laws that have been on the books for 10 plus years that the MoCo was ignoring. If the MoCo gets caught again there are more big fines for them.
I'm not one to defend the MoCo, but the above is the truth. With the size of these motors if the MoCo spent any time developing them they could make a lot more HP and torque and be reliable. Then we would not have to figure out how to get the power they should have.
I'm not one to defend the MoCo, but the above is the truth. With the size of these motors if the MoCo spent any time developing them they could make a lot more HP and torque and be reliable. Then we would not have to figure out how to get the power they should have.
They should force their dealers to follow the EPA rules if they're concerned about them doing something illegal, not put the onus on their customers.
This whole scam is nothing more than a ploy to force customers to buy "approved" MoCo crap parts instead of quality 3rd party aftermarket tuners etc.
Last edited by jpooch00; Mar 21, 2018 at 07:42 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 6,085
Likes: 6,445
From: East TN
The tape deck in my 80 Corvette stopped working in 2008. I like the sound of the motor better any way.
Read the lawsuit the EPA filed and won against the MoCo. Its not BS. Also, the dealers are not owned by the MoCo. Thats why there are good ones, bad ones and horrible ones. The onus is on the owner of the bike, as it should be, the dealer can not be responsible for my property.
Many dealers will do what ever the customer wants, and will not explain what can happen if the bike needs warranty work. Good dealers, like the one I work with tells you point blank if you change the head pipe, or tune with out EPA complainant parts your warranty could be voided by the MoCo.
Once you buy the bike your responsible for it, not the dealer. Dealer can not control what you do to the bike once its in your ownership.
I know that's the MoCo's line. IMO, total bullshit - just like everything else they have to say on this or any other subject.
They should force their dealers to follow the EPA rules if they're concerned about them doing something illegal, not put the onus on their customers.
This whole scam is nothing more than a ploy to force customers to buy "approved" MoCo crap parts instead of quality 3rd party aftermarket tuners etc.
They should force their dealers to follow the EPA rules if they're concerned about them doing something illegal, not put the onus on their customers.
This whole scam is nothing more than a ploy to force customers to buy "approved" MoCo crap parts instead of quality 3rd party aftermarket tuners etc.
Many dealers will do what ever the customer wants, and will not explain what can happen if the bike needs warranty work. Good dealers, like the one I work with tells you point blank if you change the head pipe, or tune with out EPA complainant parts your warranty could be voided by the MoCo.
Once you buy the bike your responsible for it, not the dealer. Dealer can not control what you do to the bike once its in your ownership.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 268
From: People's Republic of Boulder Colorado
The tape deck in my 80 Corvette stopped working in 2008. I like the sound of the motor better any way.
Read the lawsuit the EPA filed and won against the MoCo. Its not BS. Also, the dealers are not owned by the MoCo. Thats why there are good ones, bad ones and horrible ones. The onus is on the owner of the bike, as it should be, the dealer can not be responsible for my property.
Many dealers will do what ever the customer wants, and will not explain what can happen if the bike needs warranty work. Good dealers, like the one I work with tells you point blank if you change the head pipe, or tune with out EPA complainant parts your warranty could be voided by the MoCo.
Once you buy the bike your responsible for it, not the dealer. Dealer can not control what you do to the bike once its in your ownership.
Read the lawsuit the EPA filed and won against the MoCo. Its not BS. Also, the dealers are not owned by the MoCo. Thats why there are good ones, bad ones and horrible ones. The onus is on the owner of the bike, as it should be, the dealer can not be responsible for my property.
Many dealers will do what ever the customer wants, and will not explain what can happen if the bike needs warranty work. Good dealers, like the one I work with tells you point blank if you change the head pipe, or tune with out EPA complainant parts your warranty could be voided by the MoCo.
Once you buy the bike your responsible for it, not the dealer. Dealer can not control what you do to the bike once its in your ownership.
If it's true that the dealers aren't responsible, then why did the MoCo get fined for what their dealers did? And why doesn't the MoCo forbid their dealers to do it since the MoCo (supposedly) had to pay the fine - not the dealerships? And, if what you said is true, then why do they continue to do it? Is their excuse "Gee, the customer told me to intentionally break the well-known and straight-forward EPA regulations, so I HAD to"?
The person or company that actually tampers with emissions equipment is the one who is guilty of breaking the EPA rules, not the owner of the equipment. If you do the work yourself then, yeah, you're responsible and liable for the fines. That's the only time.
Just one more excuse to screw their customers on warranty claims pure and simple, IMO.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 268
From: People's Republic of Boulder Colorado
If the MoCo was actually interested in upholding the rules, then they would set up a way to inform the state's DMV that the bike's VIN was no longer eligible for licensing for operation on the streets due to disabling or modifying the emissions control systems on the vehicle.
Denying warranty claims for parts installed by the dealership is absolute BS.
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,030
Likes: 65
From: Calgary AB
regarding a flash counter: I did 3 auto tune runs. I had an indy shop do a Dyno Tune. So mine would be counting 4 more than the dealer would show, all on the Street Tuner.
I think the safest bet would be a Thundermax. You'd just have to figure out how to explain those extra bungs in the exhaust system.
I think the safest bet would be a Thundermax. You'd just have to figure out how to explain those extra bungs in the exhaust system.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 5,749
Likes: 1,603
From: High Point, NC.
Total BS.
If it's true that the dealers aren't responsible, then why did the MoCo get fined for what their dealers did? And why doesn't the MoCo forbid their dealers to do it since the MoCo (supposedly) had to pay the fine - not the dealerships? And, if what you said is true, then why do they continue to do it? Is their excuse "Gee, the customer told me to intentionally break the well-known and straight-forward EPA regulations, so I HAD to"?
The person or company that actually tampers with emissions equipment is the one who is guilty of breaking the EPA rules, not the owner of the equipment. If you do the work yourself then, yeah, you're responsible and liable for the fines. That's the only time.
Just one more excuse to screw their customers on warranty claims pure and simple, IMO.
If it's true that the dealers aren't responsible, then why did the MoCo get fined for what their dealers did? And why doesn't the MoCo forbid their dealers to do it since the MoCo (supposedly) had to pay the fine - not the dealerships? And, if what you said is true, then why do they continue to do it? Is their excuse "Gee, the customer told me to intentionally break the well-known and straight-forward EPA regulations, so I HAD to"?
The person or company that actually tampers with emissions equipment is the one who is guilty of breaking the EPA rules, not the owner of the equipment. If you do the work yourself then, yeah, you're responsible and liable for the fines. That's the only time.
Just one more excuse to screw their customers on warranty claims pure and simple, IMO.
I think the point is. As a customer, a dealership will put any part on YOUR bike that you request. They may or may not be obligated to again tell you that this action could void your warranty. They honestly don't care if you do, and truthfully I'm sure they would rather you have to cover any incurred expenses rather than have a warranty claim to deal with.
You've been given your warranty contract at purchase. They are under no obligation to read or explain it to you other than to have you sign all the paper work stating that YOU have read and understand all documents associated with a purchase.
Last edited by teedoff65; Mar 22, 2018 at 10:23 AM.