Undetectable tuner
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 6,445
From: East TN
Total BS.
If it's true that the dealers aren't responsible, then why did the MoCo get fined for what their dealers did? And why doesn't the MoCo forbid their dealers to do it since the MoCo (supposedly) had to pay the fine - not the dealerships? And, if what you said is true, then why do they continue to do it? Is their excuse "Gee, the customer told me to intentionally break the well-known and straight-forward EPA regulations, so I HAD to"?
The person or company that actually tampers with emissions equipment is the one who is guilty of breaking the EPA rules, not the owner of the equipment. If you do the work yourself then, yeah, you're responsible and liable for the fines. That's the only time.
Just one more excuse to screw their customers on warranty claims pure and simple, IMO.
If it's true that the dealers aren't responsible, then why did the MoCo get fined for what their dealers did? And why doesn't the MoCo forbid their dealers to do it since the MoCo (supposedly) had to pay the fine - not the dealerships? And, if what you said is true, then why do they continue to do it? Is their excuse "Gee, the customer told me to intentionally break the well-known and straight-forward EPA regulations, so I HAD to"?
The person or company that actually tampers with emissions equipment is the one who is guilty of breaking the EPA rules, not the owner of the equipment. If you do the work yourself then, yeah, you're responsible and liable for the fines. That's the only time.
Just one more excuse to screw their customers on warranty claims pure and simple, IMO.
Most dealers quit putting anything illegal on bikes for that reason. Also why the POS stage kits are pushed so hard, so they can stay with in EPA rules.
However once you own the bike you are responsible. That is fact.
I know liberals love to try to make some one else responsible. That is whats wrong with society today, no one wants to be responsible.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,791
Likes: 690
From: Smalltown,USA
Truth is what spanked the Mothers Ships *** was they sold a race tuner that made the bikes
non EPA compliant. The dealers ordered them from HD and each had the Screaming Eagle logo on it, Pretty much the factory to store to bike chain of events. And that's how the feds spanked them in court. I wouldn't test any of them in court.
non EPA compliant. The dealers ordered them from HD and each had the Screaming Eagle logo on it, Pretty much the factory to store to bike chain of events. And that's how the feds spanked them in court. I wouldn't test any of them in court.
Last edited by tbob; Mar 22, 2018 at 08:57 PM.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 760
Likes: 273
From: Olympia, WA
I know liberals love to try to make some one else responsible. That is whats wrong with society today, no one wants to be responsible.[/QUOTE]
Yep, got that right! I cleanup my own messes and I am my own police.
God Bless America! Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. Anyone wants to challenge that well bring it on and answer to me!
Yep, got that right! I cleanup my own messes and I am my own police.
God Bless America! Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. Anyone wants to challenge that well bring it on and answer to me!
The EPA rules are nothing new, they just were never really enforced.
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...per-memo1a.pdf
A quick Google search for "EPA anti-tampering enforcement policy" will show you all anything you want to know.
https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...per-memo1a.pdf
A quick Google search for "EPA anti-tampering enforcement policy" will show you all anything you want to know.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,867
Likes: 268
From: People's Republic of Boulder Colorado
If they do the work, they are liable.
Remember the 70's? Catalytic converters came out in 1975..and people immediately went to muffler shops and had them removed...the EPA came down hard and fined the shops...and in short order...if you want a converter removed you had to do it yourself...I don't understand how Harley has got away with this for so long.
This is only the tip of the ice-burg...it won't be long before they start fining the company's making the illegal parts...then there won't be any tuners or louder mufflers...it's coming. But your Harley livewire won't need any of that crap anyway...
Remember the 70's? Catalytic converters came out in 1975..and people immediately went to muffler shops and had them removed...the EPA came down hard and fined the shops...and in short order...if you want a converter removed you had to do it yourself...I don't understand how Harley has got away with this for so long.
This is only the tip of the ice-burg...it won't be long before they start fining the company's making the illegal parts...then there won't be any tuners or louder mufflers...it's coming. But your Harley livewire won't need any of that crap anyway...
Companies are NOT required to break the law upon the request of its customers.
Last edited by jpooch00; Mar 24, 2018 at 07:02 AM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 246
From: Columbia SC
Im surprised this conversation still takes place.
Hey, bottom line, if you modify an engine on ANY vehicle you own, whether its a Harley, Indian, metric bike, Dodge Challanger, Chevy Camero ... anything, you risk voiding the warranty if you blow up the engine, wreck the tranny, ya da ya da.
Things arent made like they used to be, everything is designed by computer to exacting specs, the days of "over built" engines/components are gone and they are manufactured to exacting specs and stresses vs the HP they put out.
HD is no different then anyone else and if you blow an expensive component on your bike where a factory rep wants to see it, you may be denied.
XIEDs would be undetectable or any device that does not flash the ECM.
Hey, bottom line, if you modify an engine on ANY vehicle you own, whether its a Harley, Indian, metric bike, Dodge Challanger, Chevy Camero ... anything, you risk voiding the warranty if you blow up the engine, wreck the tranny, ya da ya da.
Things arent made like they used to be, everything is designed by computer to exacting specs, the days of "over built" engines/components are gone and they are manufactured to exacting specs and stresses vs the HP they put out.
HD is no different then anyone else and if you blow an expensive component on your bike where a factory rep wants to see it, you may be denied.
XIEDs would be undetectable or any device that does not flash the ECM.
Last edited by alarmdoug; Mar 24, 2018 at 08:21 AM.
Advanced
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 92
Likes: 18
From: Orlando
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 2,285
Likes: 965
From: Eastern NC
Man you are an idiot. I have always thought that you might be until I read this post and it totally confirmed it.
Having worked for a company that was on the receiving end of a consent decree I can tell you that it's very real. Try coming into work and see 100k sq/ft of manufacturing space with every machine wrapped in yellow tape and watch 400 blue collar workers herded like cattle into rooms and let go. The federal government agencies are law enforcement and can make your life quite miserable.
Harley is a publicly traded company. Everything they do is and has to be documented as they answer to the board and share holders. They didn't just cook something up to sell more parts.
Your TC has a rash of problems as well. Water pumps on the wet heads, lifters on the 110's, wheel bearings, compensators, switch packs shorting out, clutch recalls..... The list goes on and on but most of us still love our bikes.
Before going to Colorado last year and searching post for information about the state I ran across posts of your bashing the roads, traffic and how the state was run. My experience there was no worse than any other state I rode it. I really just think you are a miserable person that the only positive contribution to life on this planet will be when you're worm food.
Having worked for a company that was on the receiving end of a consent decree I can tell you that it's very real. Try coming into work and see 100k sq/ft of manufacturing space with every machine wrapped in yellow tape and watch 400 blue collar workers herded like cattle into rooms and let go. The federal government agencies are law enforcement and can make your life quite miserable.
Harley is a publicly traded company. Everything they do is and has to be documented as they answer to the board and share holders. They didn't just cook something up to sell more parts.
Your TC has a rash of problems as well. Water pumps on the wet heads, lifters on the 110's, wheel bearings, compensators, switch packs shorting out, clutch recalls..... The list goes on and on but most of us still love our bikes.
Before going to Colorado last year and searching post for information about the state I ran across posts of your bashing the roads, traffic and how the state was run. My experience there was no worse than any other state I rode it. I really just think you are a miserable person that the only positive contribution to life on this planet will be when you're worm food.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,318
Likes: 26
God Bless America! Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. Anyone wants to challenge that well bring it on and answer to me![/QUOTE]
ignorance is bliss. 😂😂😂 Greed and corruption is whats wrong with Merica. Liberals and conservatives are equally responsible but what oil is best for M8? Lol
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
The TTS and PV are plug in, use, then unplug. The Thundermax is a replacement ECM. I agree that the TTS and PV don't leave a footprint per se with the tune file but, always a but, I had a pretty good HD tech tell me once that there is a flash counter in the stock ECM. Doesn't say what flashed it, just counts how many times it's been flashed. He could have been full of BS, I don't know?
If so, and the dealer service dept. sees you have 6 flashes and their system only shows 3 done by dealers... hmmm.
If so, and the dealer service dept. sees you have 6 flashes and their system only shows 3 done by dealers... hmmm.
Whether you have 6 flashes or 50 flashes vs what the dealer shows won't be a problem if you also own a Street Tuner. The Street Tuner is designed to flash the ECU by the owner. The ECU will show the # of flashes but no way to tell the flashes were made by the Street Tuner or another tuner.
Last edited by Heatwave; Apr 7, 2018 at 04:11 PM.