Sumping Issue? 2017 SG CVO
Stage I
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1
Likes: 1
From: tulsa oklahoma
I am fairly confident my 2017 SG CVO with the 114 sumped last weekend. I was in the twisties riding 2 up and it was about 100 degrees outside. After about 2 hours of running hard, the bike began to lose power. At first I dismissed it as my imagination until we got on the interstate and were running pretty hard. The bike would not accelerate, or if it did, it was very slow. We Ran about 15 miles down the interstate and stopped for drinks. The bike had a big time burning oil smell and would barely rev. One of the guys I was riding with mentioned the strong oil smell on the interstate. He thought it was his bike puking out the breather. Sadly it was mine.I saw no visible leaks or evidence of it puking from the air cleaner.
So I let the bike sit and cool off while we were inside for a couple of hours. When I fired it up to leave, it was as if nothing happened. Bile ran great, no power issues etc..... It ran like it was supposed to.
I dropped it at the dealer to have it looked at. Fortunately the GM has a new M8 and we have discussed him waiting on the 114 for it, as he is concerned also.
So my questions are. Are the factory 114's prone to sumping as much as the built 114's?
What should I expect or push Harley to do with this motor? I have to assume it is hurt.
I tried the search feature however the word sumpping has thousands of results.
Thanks in advance,
David
So I let the bike sit and cool off while we were inside for a couple of hours. When I fired it up to leave, it was as if nothing happened. Bile ran great, no power issues etc..... It ran like it was supposed to.
I dropped it at the dealer to have it looked at. Fortunately the GM has a new M8 and we have discussed him waiting on the 114 for it, as he is concerned also.
So my questions are. Are the factory 114's prone to sumping as much as the built 114's?
What should I expect or push Harley to do with this motor? I have to assume it is hurt.
I tried the search feature however the word sumpping has thousands of results.
Thanks in advance,
David
I had the same issue with my 2017 SG CVO on my way to a rally dealership picked it off side of rode changed oil pump and bike got so hot it melted the crankshaft position sensor. Got it back went to sturgis rode 600 miles in the mountains and bike is making a racket like the engine is coming apart. Luckily I trailered the bike because I am not confident that this bike can make it 1000 miles which is a shame spent a lot of money on a lemon. I am taking it to the dealership tomorrow and we will see what kind of damage is done. I will update the thread after I get it back.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,791
Likes: 690
From: Smalltown,USA
I had the same issue with my 2017 SG CVO on my way to a rally dealership picked it off side of rode changed oil pump and bike got so hot it melted the crankshaft position sensor. Got it back went to sturgis rode 600 miles in the mountains and bike is making a racket like the engine is coming apart. Luckily I trailered the bike because I am not confident that this bike can make it 1000 miles which is a shame spent a lot of money on a lemon. I am taking it to the dealership tomorrow and we will see what kind of damage is done. I will update the thread after I get it back.
Banned
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,098
Likes: 474
From: Location location.
No it's probably just a 2nd profile of a Twin cam owner , like the others I busted..
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,019
Likes: 599
From: Columbus, OH
My 2017 CVO Street Glide sumped on the dyno, during some cam testing. 26oz out the crank sensor hole (which leaves another 5 if you pull the case plug) Took it to a dealer, they diagnosed per service bulletin, replaced pump with latest and greatest version (as of May of 2018) and ball honed and re-ringed the cylinders due to oil on top of rear piston when heads were removed. So far with 20 or more pulls on the dyno it's got just a shade over 2oz from the crank sensor hole and leakdown tested at less than 1%. I would have liked to have a leakdown reading before it was tore down to see if cylinder seal played a part but tech didn't check it because bulletin didn't call for it. Currently waiting on a S&S pump and cam plate just to be sure, before cam testing resumes. That's my experience, many have been through much worse, many have had no problems at all. But this situation is far from bullshit, hell there has even been an 2 part column in American Iron magazine about it.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
My 2017 CVO Street Glide sumped on the dyno, during some cam testing. 26oz out the crank sensor hole (which leaves another 5 if you pull the case plug) Took it to a dealer, they diagnosed per service bulletin, replaced pump with latest and greatest version (as of May of 2018) and ball honed and re-ringed the cylinders due to oil on top of rear piston when heads were removed. So far with 20 or more pulls on the dyno it's got just a shade over 2oz from the crank sensor hole and leakdown tested at less than 1%. I would have liked to have a leakdown reading before it was tore down to see if cylinder seal played a part but tech didn't check it because bulletin didn't call for it. Currently waiting on a S&S pump and cam plate just to be sure, before cam testing resumes. That's my experience, many have been through much worse, many have had no problems at all. But this situation is far from bullshit, hell there has even been an 2 part column in American Iron magazine about it.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,019
Likes: 599
From: Columbus, OH
Thanks for sharing your sumping experience. It can be a frustrating experience as Ive been through it. Just curious... why are you now planning to install the S&S oil pump if sumping has now been resolved. Im sure you realize you will void the drivetrain warranty should you need to make a claim in the future.
There really hasn't been a "smoking gun" to definitively say exactly what the sumping issue cause is, I think different bikes have responded differently to these attempted repairs because in each situation something different is out of balance. There have been reports of loose oilers, cylinder seal, breathing issues, faulty oil pumps so I think each of these situations needs to be evaluated and the correct repair applied. That's what I think is hard for a lot of people to wrap their head around is there may be many contributing factors to one result. What made your bike sump may have nothing to do with why my bike is sumping. Say a bike thats experiencing sumping has low oil pressure it would lead to more of an oil pump/loose oilers type of problem whereas a bike that sumps after sustained freeway riding may have a breathing or cylinder seal type of problem that's aerating the oil causing cavitation in the oil pump. I haven't read all of your threads and posts but I'm aware of your situation, can they say for sure that in each one of your motors that it was the exact same cause every time?. IMO this is not a one cause one effect situation.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
Using aftermarket cam, exhaust, TB and air cleaner, so warranty is really a non issue for me. If something happens I'll take it down to the cases and build it the way it should have been to begin with. S&S pump with two stages of scavenging is a far better bet than a redesigned stock pump that has worked for some but not all of these situations.
There really hasn't been a "smoking gun" to definitively say exactly what the sumping issue cause is, I think different bikes have responded differently to these attempted repairs because in each situation something different is out of balance. There have been reports of loose oilers, cylinder seal, breathing issues, faulty oil pumps so I think each of these situations needs to be evaluated and the correct repair applied. That's what I think is hard for a lot of people to wrap their head around is there may be many contributing factors to one result. What made your bike sump may have nothing to do with why my bike is sumping. Say a bike thats experiencing sumping has low oil pressure it would lead to more of an oil pump/loose oilers type of problem whereas a bike that sumps after sustained freeway riding may have a breathing or cylinder seal type of problem that's aerating the oil causing cavitation in the oil pump. I haven't read all of your threads and posts but I'm aware of your situation, can they say for sure that in each one of your motors that it was the exact same cause every time?. IMO this is not a one cause one effect situation.
There really hasn't been a "smoking gun" to definitively say exactly what the sumping issue cause is, I think different bikes have responded differently to these attempted repairs because in each situation something different is out of balance. There have been reports of loose oilers, cylinder seal, breathing issues, faulty oil pumps so I think each of these situations needs to be evaluated and the correct repair applied. That's what I think is hard for a lot of people to wrap their head around is there may be many contributing factors to one result. What made your bike sump may have nothing to do with why my bike is sumping. Say a bike thats experiencing sumping has low oil pressure it would lead to more of an oil pump/loose oilers type of problem whereas a bike that sumps after sustained freeway riding may have a breathing or cylinder seal type of problem that's aerating the oil causing cavitation in the oil pump. I haven't read all of your threads and posts but I'm aware of your situation, can they say for sure that in each one of your motors that it was the exact same cause every time?. IMO this is not a one cause one effect situation.
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Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 579
Likes: 38
From: Texas
Silly question maybe but how are they measuring the amount of oil. The sensor looks like its pretty high up on the motor. Thanks assuming I am looking at the right one. What I believe is the sensor Screws into the cam cover right behind front head pipe.
Is that correct?
Is that correct?
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
No...the crank position sensor is under the engine (underneath the bike). Remove it with a wrench and any oil in the crankcase will drip/pour out. According to SB1450, if more than 6 ounces of M8 engine oil flows out into a catch pan (after following the running steps in SB1450), then your engine is sumping whether you are aware of it or not.
Last edited by Heatwave; Aug 18, 2018 at 09:57 AM.