Megawatt,

First off sorry for the late come back, I was away all last week.

You had to mod the tranny case, damn didn’t have to do that with my AB first starter, in fact I think I mention it in a pass post to someone that I had the alum case, reality is it’s painted black just for the hell of it I will post a pic of the top of the tranny, not a mark in it.

For me it’s the angle of the drive cap mounted to the primary that is my problem, Cal products makes a damn good replacement inter-primary I have a few pic’s of both stock and after, it’s night and day besides its heavier and the re-enforcing (where mine cracked) never had to mod the case for anything and back then I had my stock starter, I saw it in J&P cat. in fact I let my indy shop order it when I told him I was getting it.

Yeah I thought about getting hi-comp one above it, but I was thinking about longer life so just did the 82 hp rated, plenty of power for me, but yours must really roll …… and then some : - )

Again, sorry for the late come back, man get better, if you have any doubts on that doctor move on find another.

Take care,

cj

 

hey CJ, did you get the bike all sorted out yet?

 

The short answer is no : - ))

Today I am sending back the All ***** driver cap to get re-drilled needs two more holes, if you read the other posts you saw I stated that the original HD OEM starter fit in the Cal Products inter-primary with no problem, the first AB starter needed those extra holes the second or a few weeks ago new AB starter also needed those holes, since AB changed the drive cap to a new design starter added notches into both the cap to the primary and the starter I need to use the new as a set, the first cap will only fit with the old or first starter, so it wasn’t just a matter of using the driver cap with the second or newer starter, no notches no fit. so if logic prevails the two extra holes will let the new starter slide in w/o grinding out the trans. but as I said “if there is logic” : - ))

going out today, too bad AB only drilled this new one with two holes it needed 4

I wanted to attach a pic of the top of the trans, no mods were needed, so I’ll add it here, please don’t look at the dirty trans since this was going on haven’t wash the bike yet : - ))

ride safe,

cj

 

damnn them little wires hiding everywhere

 

Megawatt,

Well the driver end cap came back from All-***** starters, the two extra holes did the trick, when I put on the drive cap and started to push the starter into it, it just touched the tranny housing, right off the bat I thought of you telling me you had to grind the tranny housing, my second thought was “whats this bs” : - ) the first AB starter made it in w/o any grinding ?

so I started to tap the end of the starter w/a rubber dead weight hammer, that did it but if you remember the starter housing (w/o the end cap) it’s in 2 pieces the middle piece w/the o-ring had a gap of 3/16” between the pieces, the front of the starter was right up and flush to the drive cap, can I draw it together with the two long bolts from the starter end to the drive cap ?

I had only a ź” drive 5/16” socket w/a quarter to 3/8” adapter and it wasn’t feeling too good being bolted in, I back off sent an e-mail to A-B asking first if I should draw the starter into the drive cap using those 2 long bolts ? it came back it should be no problem as long as the starter was before installed spinning free (meaning the brushes are in place)

First thing I did today was go out and get a 3/8 drive 5/16” socket that did it felt good drawing In, made sure I was holding and pushing the end of the starter while tightening up both side bolts.

So am busy the rest of the day today so maybe Sunday or Monday will install the rest of the stuff to finish, battery tray etc. then comes the voltage and AMP test w/the new starter.

So I wanted to tell you I guess somehow I am lucky not to have to take off any from the tranny to get the starter in, that was on my mind since you told that : - )))

take care, ride safe when you back on it,

cj

 

cj,
I don't remember exactly what the install of my starter went like but I do remember being concerned about the motor coming apart during install and damaging the brushes.
Glad you got it in place.
Waiting to hear the outcome of this latest attempt.
I'm hoping it'll be a tale of success and not one of disaster.

 

Yeah a long time ago I remember I was holding a HD starter out of the mount and it just slid out, that was the first and only time I did that, after all can’t beat a life lesson : - ))

One can never know for sure but it seems its in right, I really didn’t want to draw the starter into the drive cap using the side bolts, glad I ask them if its ok, using that ź drive socket was a pain it just didn’t feel right, all the time thinking hay where is my 5/16” 3/’8 drive socket ?

didn’t have one most sets start at 3/8” up, went to Lowes they didn’t even have a spot with a tag 3/8 drive 5/16” socket ? Home Depot did, $3 was worth it, all of this doesn’t feel right with the quarter drive went away.

I want to do the test now just got home, but it’s in the 90’s w/humid !!!!
This will be it megawatt tell time, I hung a lot of stuff on it that I hate to do, never did that, I guess it was the time closing in for that m/c trip that was driving it, so it will come down to the battery or starter, it can’t be the new old stock OEM solenoid ? : - ))) famous last words : - )))

My money is on the battery, yesterday for the first time in a few weeks of getting and topping off then the odyssey battery I check it, it was 12.92 V, the old one would never read that after 2 standing weeks, that was my bitch w/odyssey going back and forth.

Looks like the final test will show all, (first off was the starter in right : ) like I said the battery or solenoid start voltage and the most important in my mind what is the AMP draw ?

will it be anywhere near 224 AMPs of the first A-B starter ?

As I said will be back with the answers I hope : - )))

Take care,

cj

 

Tom,

You were right on about the battery as others here were.

The latest what happen, with the m/c trip coming down real fast, I was panicking so I started to hang parts, the OEM solenoid I really needed, it’s between the battery and starter, the battery always bother me not keeping a standing charge when it was new, I was back ‘n forth w/ Odyssey about that, nothing came of it.

As for the starter I was letting people get to me about the draw of the AMPs and after test starting then slow, slower to stop, the battery cables were getting HOT, btw- my cables are new from the latest re-build not OEM 6 Ga but all are 4 Ga fine 100 % cooper, even with a bigger battery the drag happen ? so it naturally was pointing to the starter, stayed with All-***** starter if you been flowing this you know what I went through with the new drive cap design, in the end no big deal.

This AM I hook up the battery temporary wise meaning not in the tray (12.92 V), first test was after jumping the spark plug wires together, I did a volt reading on the solenoid small 12 V terminal, it was reading while cranking 8.36 V mmm, ok the battery at cranking was 9.7 V, well the 8.36 was better than the 5 + V I was getting before : - ))

I let the battery come back up on it’s own, Odyssey is known for that and it came through, after that test I was at battery 12.67 V after 15 mins of resting it was back to 12.86 V

Now for the AMP draw, battery at 12.86 V, meter set on mVDC, AMP clamp zero-in as you can see the attach pic my reading with the new battery and new 1.4 kW starter was 238 AMPs, remember I got a reading of when the new at the time other AB starter and was running a HD gel battery was 224 AMPs, I guess we can say this is normal AMPs draw, it comes close to Tracy Martin MC Electrical System book of 1000 to 2000 cc could be as high as 200 AMPs draw, as for the HD FL/FX service manual ‘78 – ‘84 printed in ’84, states if current readings of 100 AMPs check starter and standard electrical theory formula’s are not for different brands and spec’s of starters than OEM or formula’s in real life.

Just to make damn sure that it’s the battery than the starter (remember two load testers said the battery was ok) , I just sent All-***** an e-mail asking them to check out my old starter to make sure it’s ok and in spec. after all that will be the final answer on this.

I want to thank all for their help here, that is why this site is a great resource !!!

Ride safe all,

cj


Edit forgot to add:

Even after all that testing the battery cables at the solenoid were cold as
ice, if ice is that cold at 85 + degs : - ))

 

Megawatt,

I want to tell you since you have the same starter set-up as I have, I guess you know it was the battery I have no doubt about it but will send back my A-B starter to make sure it’s in spec. I know it is because there is no burnt smell or any damage I can see on the windings, but check this out, you know I was drawing 238 AMPs on this set-up the last one was 224 AMPs, after the second test a few days ago, I decided to put and extra ground from the starter to the frame ground, using the 4 Ga cooper ground I had on when it started to get hot discoloring a bit at the solenoid end, just put a new Terry cable on it, I remember a few years back when upgrading the engine and trans, my independent shop ask me you know some guys are putting in this starter put on a extra 4 Ga ground strap from the starter to the frame?

Ok, maybe if I need it thanks for telling me, well yesterday after the test of 238 AMPs while putting back the battery tray I decided to take that ground cable I had after doing an Ohm test that it was the same as the new Terry cable, I took out one of the side starter long bolts, I have the starter relay ground on it, it fits approx 12” long so I put the other end on the frame ground with the battery ground, today I started it up after setting since last season, I was thinking maybe I should get the carb cleaner just in case : - )) did hit the starter it lit up first thing, ok go get it inspected, when I got
home I was sitting there and thought maybe I should do another AMP draw since I put on this extra ground cable ?

really thinking nothing would be different, zero the claw in ground the spark plug wires and I get high of 196 AMPs sometimes down to 184 AMPs, that extra ground strap had to do this, started the test off w/13.02 on the battery just came back from a ride like I said, but damn now even I fell better 238 is a lot of AMPs but under two hundred makes me feel better : - )))

Hay think about doing this, I did the test before twice the highest reading was 238 from a low of 228, thinking again about it that starter is only grounded w/two small allen bolts (drive cap) holding the alum primary starter shaft and gear housing, two little steel bolts holding and grounding a Alum drive starter cap !! then attached to two small bolts that run along side the starter motor, that ground cable made a difference I know it did.

Take care, ride safe

cj

 

Glad you got it going in time for your trip!!!!!