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I have to agree with bagger on the cam.. I as well believe it will be soft on the bottom. My build looks very, very similar to your's just set at 96" however you do have the difference in cubic inch which I believe will mask that, some... I did run your build numbers on various calculators and your heads should perform very well with maximum efficiency @5100 rpm. I'm not and expert at head configuration but have had several builds with reconfigured OEM heads. I'm not sure I agree with the difference of intake to exhaust relationship. The 1.61" exhaust valve works very well on a ported head that utilizes the 1.90" intake valve. At 1.98" you are having the Intake valve increased by 4% and leaving the exhaust at 0%. You don't want to bottle neck the flow at the exhaust valve, maybe and just maybe the earlier opening at 60* might help it scavenge a little better but that as well could affect the torque on bottom... I'm running a 1.63" ex with my 1.94" in. To maximize your "mean gas speed" i'm thinking a 1.65" ex. You might want to talk to another porter for a second opinion. It doesn't hurt and you might not leave anything on the Table....
Last edited by 98hotrodfatboy; Nov 5, 2017 at 08:09 AM.
The 585's 45 degree intake closing will be at the edge with 10.5-1, from my experience with S&S cams they hit softer than the other known "race" style cams. Knowing this the S&S 585 should survive in your direction with some fuel, good street manors and heat will be down. Negative is some slight performance loss compared to a aggressive cam so some trade offs.
You have a balancing act right now with the bagger weight, too late of a intake closing cam she will be soft in the 2300-2600 range were a bagger lives. I ran a 10.2-1 stroker motor with a aggressive Woods 42 degree intake timing for 7 years in a bagger and a pleasure to ride, this is also my reasoning on why I believe the softer 585 design and 45 degree closing will live at 10.5-1 and the power will still be in the riding area, just need a good tune which you said is your strong point.
Note: I never ran compression releases in the mentioned engine but my starting system was upgraded to the top of the food chain, several gear heads on here have recently had compression releases installed when doing builds and I have them in my 130" they do take pressure off the starter and since you have your heads off kinda think about them.
Traditionally, you are correct. In my case though, I don't live at those RPM's. My highway cruise will be around 3200 rpm, and since I mostly ride on the highway that's where I'd like the beginning of the powerband to start. Not to mention I've done some "chopping" on this bike so it's a bit lighter than a normal bagger. Worst case, I'll be built to try an S&S 600 in the future if I feel like a change of pace/powerband location, even if the 600 has a slightly later than optimal intake close for my CR (or any cam with the later intake close than the 585 for that matter).
Regarding the tune, I use an AEM Wideband O2 sensor for all parameters of carb tune. Quite frankly, I'd rather spend $160 for the tool as opposed to many hundreds on dyno sessions from a "tuner" who just fiddles with jets (if they even know their way around an HSR at this point) and doesn't get feedback on the AFR. I can plug in the AEM and hit the highway. My current HSR has been tapped to allen cap screws so I can swap out a main or pilot jet in 15 min on the side of the road. Needle clip position on the other hand... This process has never steered me wrong, and the last time I did it with a dyno follow up the dyno operator said he wouldn't change a thing about the tune.
To me, tuning is a matter of answering two questions: what's the AFR, and when can the spark go off without knocking. I'm about 90% AFR in that once the ignition is set per OEM I leave it most of the time. 14:1 for slow cruise, high 13's for high cruise, acceleration in the high 12's, WFO in the low 12's if I can. I may knock the VOES up closer to atmospheric to keep my advance curve on during acceleration, but this will depend on the burn rate of my setup. For now I'll set it and forget it.
I have to agree with bagger on the cam.. I as well believe it will be soft on the bottom. My build looks very, very similar to your's just set at 96" however you do have the difference in cubic inch which I believe will mask that, some... I did run your build numbers on various calculators and your heads should perform very well with maximum efficiency @5100 rpm. I'm not and expert at head configuration but have had several builds with reconfigured OEM heads. I'm not sure I agree with the difference of intake to exhaust relationship. The 1.61" exhaust valve works very well on a ported head that utilizes the 1.90" intake valve. At 1.98" you are having the Intake valve increased by 4% and leaving the exhaust at 0%. You don't want to bottle neck the flow at the exhaust valve, maybe and just maybe the earlier opening at 60* might help it scavenge a little better but that as well could affect the torque on bottom... I'm running a 1.63" ex with my 1.94" in. To maximize your "mean gas speed" i'm thinking a 1.65" ex. You might want to talk to another porter for a second opinion. It doesn't hurt and you might not leave anything on the Table....
You raise a good question, I'll ask him. In my past they gave less importance to the exhaust valve size on account of the cylinder pushing all the spent gasses out anyway, size was less of a concern. Not to mention, smaller exhaust valves allow for large intake valves. Back in my Sportster days the exhaust valve size was reduced for this reason. We were told from multiple builders that the exhaust itself had more of an effect on reducing flow than the valve size. Not sure if this applies to the Evo, but I'll ask.
If your wanting the bang at 3200 RPM then you should be ok... I prefer 2800.... What pipe you gonna to run? One thing I do believe to be accurate is a smaller exhaust valve should bring in the torque a little sooner.... But on the flip will limit the top...
Currently got a Thunderheader on it, the one for baggers with the long center section that brings the actual baffled section back about 18". I'm thinking about doing something customer after the collector. Keep the 2-1, but I've built mufflers before using louvered cores, SS packing wool, and various cones/tubes. I've never really liked the pop/crackle of thunderheaders, I like the deep "woof" sound of louvered core mufflers, especially the ones that open up in diameter a bit before the outlet.
Didn't really paint the town red with bike stuff this weekend, I was feeling like chilling out more than getting greasy. That and I'm on a hold for parts. Starting to look like a bike again though:
Cleaning up the wiring as well. You would not believe how much extra **** they have in this harness on account of using it on the Ultra as well. I ended up knocking the main harness down to 12 wires, the power, starter, and ground:
And I got this ready to go. It's my new case with the studs removed and my heads stripped of paint and valves.
I'm figuring sometime after Thanksgiving is when I'll get it all back.
Traditionally, you are correct. In my case though, I don't live at those RPM's. My highway cruise will be around 3200 rpm, and since I mostly ride on the highway that's where I'd like the beginning of the powerband to start.
You speaking of interstates at 65 mph or gear ratio at 55 mph? My riding group avoid interstates like a fat girl in a 2 piece. At 55 mph your going to need roughly 3.80 gearing to reach 3200 and 65 mph is buzzing, 3.36 is a great gearing for a bagger, 3.60 will live with a OD6.
S&S 600 is a left over Big Dog EPA mush cam, whole lot better cams out there than this one, not trying to be over bearing, just have been down this road.
You speaking of interstates at 65 mph or gear ratio at 55 mph? My riding group avoid interstates like a fat girl in a 2 piece. At 55 mph your going to need roughly 3.80 gearing to reach 3200 and 65 mph is buzzing, 3.36 is a great gearing for a bagger, 3.60 will live with a OD6.
S&S 600 is a left over Big Dog EPA mush cam, whole lot better cams out there than this one, not trying to be over bearing, just have been down this road.
Here's my frame of reference. I used to own an 04 Ultra. Long story short, 70 mph was IIRC 3200 rpm. Cruising at 80 was around 3500 rpm, which I thought was a little high, so I bought the smaller rear pulley and shorter belt from a Softail. I don't lug my motors, but I like to cruise in the low 3k's and around here that's 80 mph, so I'm gearing accordingly. I have no idea what my final drive ratio is.
Thanks for your take on the cams. I'm not sold on S&S cams to be honest. I got the 585 for free and it's a good street cam, so I'm using it. What else is there? Andrews is played out. I've heard of Woods.
Yes the 585 is a great street cam and won't beat your valve train up, from your rpm's your wanting to run I would confirm a good fit. Aggressive cams like Woods do produce power but at the expense of steep lobes I call square cams are hard of moving parts.
I installed a S&S 640 in the current engine and perfectly happy with it's manners, sure I can jump to Red Shift, Woods, T man and get more power but at a point of reliability in my life.
I believe the 585 will work nicely, just at the edge of detonation with it's intake closing like I mentioned in a earlier post but with your tuning equipment you will be fine especially at the AFR target numbers you posted.
Last edited by 1997bagger; Nov 5, 2017 at 08:15 PM.
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This process has never steered me wrong, and the last time I did it with a dyno follow up the dyno operator said he wouldn't change a thing about the tune. 
