Winter project 2015
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Tourer
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 497
Likes: 187
From: Dallas area
One more change to the scooter. I wanted a tribute to my Dad and Daddy-in-law on the scooter. A friend found the HD Air Force covers for my Dad. Now scouting for Army for Daddy-in-law. Probably something to put on the sissybar or primary insp cover.
For all of our veterans and active military - Thank you for your service to our country!
For all of our veterans and active military - Thank you for your service to our country!
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Tourer
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 497
Likes: 187
From: Dallas area
This one just went into Phase II. A intermittent squeaking noise started not long after I did the work. Didn't happen enough to nail it down. Didn't find anything loose.
On the way back from a trip in early March it firmed up and heard it changing with engine speed but still intermittent. Chased it with a stethoscope and it was in the valve train. Went into the rear rocker box and found the noise on the intake train. Same noise in both rocker boxes. Remove the rocker assy and nothing obvious. Rocker shafts were tight and no slop in the rocker arms. Pulled the lifters out today and found this problem on both cylinders. Flat spots and galling. The roller bearings are rough and make noise. Haven't pulled the cams yet but they are probably toast.
Lucky here in the sense it wasn't a catastrophic failure. I had checked the oil filter and oil for metal before this teardown and nothing out of the ordinary.
I had replaced the lifters with aftermarket about 65-70k miles ago after I had one keep loosing prime.
On the way back from a trip in early March it firmed up and heard it changing with engine speed but still intermittent. Chased it with a stethoscope and it was in the valve train. Went into the rear rocker box and found the noise on the intake train. Same noise in both rocker boxes. Remove the rocker assy and nothing obvious. Rocker shafts were tight and no slop in the rocker arms. Pulled the lifters out today and found this problem on both cylinders. Flat spots and galling. The roller bearings are rough and make noise. Haven't pulled the cams yet but they are probably toast.
Lucky here in the sense it wasn't a catastrophic failure. I had checked the oil filter and oil for metal before this teardown and nothing out of the ordinary.
I had replaced the lifters with aftermarket about 65-70k miles ago after I had one keep loosing prime.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 497
Likes: 187
From: Dallas area
Still sorting out the cause. Puzzling why all four lifters went south.
No signs of metal in the oil or filter but this could have happened over time and stuff flushed away with oil changes.
The lifter anti-rotation pins are shiny and no signs of hammering.
The inner cam bearing surfaces have a pattern but also shiny and no signs of chattering like a loose/worn bearing. Outer cam bearing surface looks like new. The bearing surfaces in the cam plate have a pattern but looks like normal wear.
The sides of the lifters look like new, the bores look good. No signs of hammering.
I've only taken a cursory look at the oil pump outer georotor. It looks good. Need to look at all of the insides of the pump and pressure relief valve. Need to fish around in the bottom of the cam chest and the oil that drained out.
All rocker shafts are tight. One problem I didn't have!
No signs of metal in the oil or filter but this could have happened over time and stuff flushed away with oil changes.
The lifter anti-rotation pins are shiny and no signs of hammering.
The inner cam bearing surfaces have a pattern but also shiny and no signs of chattering like a loose/worn bearing. Outer cam bearing surface looks like new. The bearing surfaces in the cam plate have a pattern but looks like normal wear.
The sides of the lifters look like new, the bores look good. No signs of hammering.
I've only taken a cursory look at the oil pump outer georotor. It looks good. Need to look at all of the insides of the pump and pressure relief valve. Need to fish around in the bottom of the cam chest and the oil that drained out.
All rocker shafts are tight. One problem I didn't have!
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 2,181
Likes: 488
From: Central California
I've been into a lot of engines, mostly drag race motors for cars, and many with roller lifters. Still the same though. That really REALLY looks like debris damage.
Roller lifters for the most part have needle bearings inside the roller wheel itself. Some have a bushing. If it has needle bearings and something gets in there, it could "stick" the roller. Roller doesn't roll, and rubs off metal.
So the big question is....
Does the roller itself turn? And does it do so smoothly with no tight spots, not even a little? It's not even relevant except to try to figure out why.
It's not uncommon for those little needle bearings to simply give up with little to no warning. It could be that's where you're ticking sound was coming from that you thought might be a rocker issue earlier. Unfortunately it's not typically a serviceable item. Once the lifters start to go, they're done.
Roller lifters for the most part have needle bearings inside the roller wheel itself. Some have a bushing. If it has needle bearings and something gets in there, it could "stick" the roller. Roller doesn't roll, and rubs off metal.
So the big question is....
Does the roller itself turn? And does it do so smoothly with no tight spots, not even a little? It's not even relevant except to try to figure out why.
It's not uncommon for those little needle bearings to simply give up with little to no warning. It could be that's where you're ticking sound was coming from that you thought might be a rocker issue earlier. Unfortunately it's not typically a serviceable item. Once the lifters start to go, they're done.
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