tc88 compensator problems?
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 102
Likes: 53
From: Montana
tc88 compensator problems?
So, lately, when i shut my bike off, i get a marbles-in-a-tin can sound coming from the primary area. its at the very end when the motor stops spinning. has happened the last few times ive ridden it.
and last night, went for a short ride, while maintaining a constant speed and rpm, i got a horrible grinding sound, where i could feel the vibration in the left floor board. almost felt like the left side frame was dragging. only lasted a second, but the bike maintained rpms but started slowing down for that brief second. its done this very randomly a few times before.
reading into it, kinda sounds like a compensator issue, but it looks like those problems happen on a 07-09 touring model, not so much this bike. right?
I didnt have time last night, but this afternoon im guna drain the primary and pull the cover to look around.
anyone have a similliar issue? maybe the primary tension is too loose and the chains skipping teeth?
will follow up with what i find.
'04 fatboy, stage 1 big sucker intake, vance and hines big shot pipes, andrews 21 cam. pc III, (just downloaded a map for the pc, neved been dynoed)
and last night, went for a short ride, while maintaining a constant speed and rpm, i got a horrible grinding sound, where i could feel the vibration in the left floor board. almost felt like the left side frame was dragging. only lasted a second, but the bike maintained rpms but started slowing down for that brief second. its done this very randomly a few times before.
reading into it, kinda sounds like a compensator issue, but it looks like those problems happen on a 07-09 touring model, not so much this bike. right?
I didnt have time last night, but this afternoon im guna drain the primary and pull the cover to look around.
anyone have a similliar issue? maybe the primary tension is too loose and the chains skipping teeth?
will follow up with what i find.
'04 fatboy, stage 1 big sucker intake, vance and hines big shot pipes, andrews 21 cam. pc III, (just downloaded a map for the pc, neved been dynoed)
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 2,053
Likes: 1,488
From: Black Hills of SD
Just throwing a couple of ideas at you until the actual knowledge guys show up.
Loose drive belt
Possible cam chain tensioner pads [right-hand side I know]
There was a thread here about a bolt or spacer that can come loose under the fender and back by the frontal area of the belt. That may end up stuck back in the belt drive area and maybe could cause some noises?
Something loose in the floorboard or that area?
Loose drive belt
Possible cam chain tensioner pads [right-hand side I know]
There was a thread here about a bolt or spacer that can come loose under the fender and back by the frontal area of the belt. That may end up stuck back in the belt drive area and maybe could cause some noises?
Something loose in the floorboard or that area?
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 102
Likes: 53
From: Montana
Just throwing a couple of ideas at you until the actual knowledge guys show up.
Loose drive belt
Possible cam chain tensioner pads [right-hand side I know]
There was a thread here about a bolt or spacer that can come loose under the fender and back by the frontal area of the belt. That may end up stuck back in the belt drive area and maybe could cause some noises?
Something loose in the floorboard or that area?
Loose drive belt
Possible cam chain tensioner pads [right-hand side I know]
There was a thread here about a bolt or spacer that can come loose under the fender and back by the frontal area of the belt. That may end up stuck back in the belt drive area and maybe could cause some noises?
Something loose in the floorboard or that area?
but i changed the tensioners to CYCO pads about ~8k miles ago (hope its not those)
drive belt is looking good cause i checked that a few weeks ago. was getting some rubbing of the inner wheel plastic thingy. but no excess wear and has proper tension.
floor board is on tight, but ill double check this afternoon.
it definitely feels left side motor related, right inside my floor board.
it runs great except the final rattle sound at shut off and the 1-2 second loud grinding sound that rarely occurs
just noticed we have similar bikes. i like your taste!
Last edited by pat_in_the_hat; May 25, 2022 at 11:28 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 11,249
From: San Diego, CA
So, lately, when i shut my bike off, i get a marbles-in-a-tin can sound coming from the primary area. its at the very end when the motor stops spinning. has happened the last few times ive ridden it.
and last night, went for a short ride, while maintaining a constant speed and rpm, i got a horrible grinding sound, where i could feel the vibration in the left floor board. almost felt like the left side frame was dragging. only lasted a second, but the bike maintained rpms but started slowing down for that brief second. its done this very randomly a few times before.
reading into it, kinda sounds like a compensator issue, but it looks like those problems happen on a 07-09 touring model, not so much this bike. right?
I didnt have time last night, but this afternoon im guna drain the primary and pull the cover to look around.
anyone have a similliar issue? maybe the primary tension is too loose and the chains skipping teeth?
will follow up with what i find.
'04 fatboy, stage 1 big sucker intake, vance and hines big shot pipes, andrews 21 cam. pc III, (just downloaded a map for the pc, neved been dynoed)
and last night, went for a short ride, while maintaining a constant speed and rpm, i got a horrible grinding sound, where i could feel the vibration in the left floor board. almost felt like the left side frame was dragging. only lasted a second, but the bike maintained rpms but started slowing down for that brief second. its done this very randomly a few times before.
reading into it, kinda sounds like a compensator issue, but it looks like those problems happen on a 07-09 touring model, not so much this bike. right?
I didnt have time last night, but this afternoon im guna drain the primary and pull the cover to look around.
anyone have a similliar issue? maybe the primary tension is too loose and the chains skipping teeth?
will follow up with what i find.
'04 fatboy, stage 1 big sucker intake, vance and hines big shot pipes, andrews 21 cam. pc III, (just downloaded a map for the pc, neved been dynoed)
Although not widespread, there have been more than a few cases where early twin cams had the compensator bolt come loose.....
I'd check that before riding it again.... if you find it loose, make sure to check out the comp/rotor to make sure it wasn't damaged by the loose bolt allowing slipping of the parts...
If torquing it back to spec, and you have an '04 Service manual, it will have the old comp bolt torque spec of 165 ft-lbs...
They changed that to a torque spec of 75 ft-lbs, followed by 45°-50° of additional turn, not to exceed 50°...
The new torque spec is covered in Service Bulletin M-1170, dated 5/27/05..
And of course, if you reuse the comp bolt, clean up the bolt and threads real well, and use red loctite...
Some early twin cam comps didn't have enough stack height to allow for proper torque clamp. The comp bolt would bottom out prior to proper torque, making it impossible to achieve proper clamp load... they suggested adding a shim under the comp bolt head.
That issue was addressed in a Tech Tip, TT122, dated 10/29/03.
NOTE: the date of the tech tip is 2003, so it still mentions the old comp torque spec...
Last edited by hattitude; May 25, 2022 at 12:09 PM.
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 102
Likes: 53
From: Montana
While the '07+ comps have been problematic, and the prior comps have proven to give long service, it doesn't mean you couldn't have a comp problem.... or something else in the primary....
Although not widespread, there have been more than a few cases where early twin cams had the compensator bolt come loose.....
I'd check that before riding it again.... if you find it loose, make sure to check out the comp/rotor to make sure it wasn't damaged by the loose bolt allowing slipping of the parts...
If torquing it back to spec, and you have an '04 Service manual, it will have the old comp bolt torque spec of 165 ft-lbs...
They changed that to a torque spec of 75 ft-lbs, followed by 45°-50° of additional turn, not to exceed 50°...
The new torque spec is covered in Service Bulletin M-1170, dated 5/27/05..
And of course, if you reuse the comp bolt, clean up the bolt and threads real well, and use red loctite...
Some early twin cam comps didn't have enough stack height to allow for proper torque clamp. The comp bolt would bottom out prior to proper torque, making it impossible to achieve proper clamp load... they suggested adding a shim under the comp bolt head.
That issue was addressed in a Tech Tip, TT122, dated 10/29/03.
NOTE: the date of the tech tip is 2003, so it still mentions the old comp torque spec...
Although not widespread, there have been more than a few cases where early twin cams had the compensator bolt come loose.....
I'd check that before riding it again.... if you find it loose, make sure to check out the comp/rotor to make sure it wasn't damaged by the loose bolt allowing slipping of the parts...
If torquing it back to spec, and you have an '04 Service manual, it will have the old comp bolt torque spec of 165 ft-lbs...
They changed that to a torque spec of 75 ft-lbs, followed by 45°-50° of additional turn, not to exceed 50°...
The new torque spec is covered in Service Bulletin M-1170, dated 5/27/05..
And of course, if you reuse the comp bolt, clean up the bolt and threads real well, and use red loctite...
Some early twin cam comps didn't have enough stack height to allow for proper torque clamp. The comp bolt would bottom out prior to proper torque, making it impossible to achieve proper clamp load... they suggested adding a shim under the comp bolt head.
That issue was addressed in a Tech Tip, TT122, dated 10/29/03.
NOTE: the date of the tech tip is 2003, so it still mentions the old comp torque spec...
So tore into it. Compensater looked good. But Primary had like 1-1/4" play. I checked it last time I changed the primary, but it must have loosened up. Tightened it up and put it all back together. Seems to be running better so far. But now every small tick is making me nervous
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,158
Likes: 11,249
From: San Diego, CA
Looks like you found your problem....
In you pic you can see witness marks where the chain was hitting the top of the inner primary cover (above the chain) and the support webbing on the inner primary cover for the primary chain inspection cover bolt (below the chain)....
That thing was slapping pretty good... I suspect that was your noise, if all else looks good.... Based on your description, I thought you were going to find your comp bolt almost falling out and the comp/rotor rattling around in there...
Congrats...
Enjoy your diagnosis and repair... but don't worry... It's a motorcycle, it will give you another issue to chase, eventually....
In you pic you can see witness marks where the chain was hitting the top of the inner primary cover (above the chain) and the support webbing on the inner primary cover for the primary chain inspection cover bolt (below the chain)....
That thing was slapping pretty good... I suspect that was your noise, if all else looks good.... Based on your description, I thought you were going to find your comp bolt almost falling out and the comp/rotor rattling around in there...
Congrats...
Enjoy your diagnosis and repair... but don't worry... It's a motorcycle, it will give you another issue to chase, eventually....
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 8,129
Likes: 1,981
From: Ottawa, CANADA
While the '07+ comps have been problematic, and the prior comps have proven to give long service, it doesn't mean you couldn't have a comp problem.... or something else in the primary....
Although not widespread, there have been more than a few cases where early twin cams had the compensator bolt come loose.....
I'd check that before riding it again.... if you find it loose, make sure to check out the comp/rotor to make sure it wasn't damaged by the loose bolt allowing slipping of the parts...
If torquing it back to spec, and you have an '04 Service manual, it will have the old comp bolt torque spec of 165 ft-lbs...
They changed that to a torque spec of 75 ft-lbs, followed by 45°-50° of additional turn, not to exceed 50°...
The new torque spec is covered in Service Bulletin M-1170, dated 5/27/05..
And of course, if you reuse the comp bolt, clean up the bolt and threads real well, and use red loctite...
Some early twin cam comps didn't have enough stack height to allow for proper torque clamp. The comp bolt would bottom out prior to proper torque, making it impossible to achieve proper clamp load... they suggested adding a shim under the comp bolt head.
That issue was addressed in a Tech Tip, TT122, dated 10/29/03.
NOTE: the date of the tech tip is 2003, so it still mentions the old comp torque spec...
Although not widespread, there have been more than a few cases where early twin cams had the compensator bolt come loose.....
I'd check that before riding it again.... if you find it loose, make sure to check out the comp/rotor to make sure it wasn't damaged by the loose bolt allowing slipping of the parts...
If torquing it back to spec, and you have an '04 Service manual, it will have the old comp bolt torque spec of 165 ft-lbs...
They changed that to a torque spec of 75 ft-lbs, followed by 45°-50° of additional turn, not to exceed 50°...
The new torque spec is covered in Service Bulletin M-1170, dated 5/27/05..
And of course, if you reuse the comp bolt, clean up the bolt and threads real well, and use red loctite...
Some early twin cam comps didn't have enough stack height to allow for proper torque clamp. The comp bolt would bottom out prior to proper torque, making it impossible to achieve proper clamp load... they suggested adding a shim under the comp bolt head.
That issue was addressed in a Tech Tip, TT122, dated 10/29/03.
NOTE: the date of the tech tip is 2003, so it still mentions the old comp torque spec...
), while riding on the BRP, I had a similar noise/vibration as the OP. A couple of days later, as I was leaving a friend's place, the noise/vibration happened again, and this time Reaper stalled, and I couldn't restart her. Called the local dealer, and they sent a tow truck. Turns out the compensator nut had backed off, because my local dealer hadn't torqued it correctly after doing some work in the primary. There was quite a bit of damage in the primary, thanks to that happening.As Hattitude states above, up to 2005, the comp nut was too long, and they changed the torque spec/method. Another way to do it is to add a 0.090" spacer between the comp nut and rotor, ad a couple of drops of red loctite, and then torque to 175 ft-lbs. This is what I choose to do, I've had the comp off a few times since, and the nut has never budged after reinstallation.
I did replace the whole compensator assembly, when the spring pack was worn out, and it was rattling, after 150,000+ miles.
All that to say, the comp nut is the first thing I would look at.
EDIT: I didn't notice the problem had been found before posting, but I'll leave my post up for informational purposes, on case anyone else has a similar issue.
Cheers!
Last edited by Clammy; May 25, 2022 at 11:19 PM.
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Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 2,053
Likes: 1,488
From: Black Hills of SD
A little bit of a hi-jack.
Is it considered necessary to be checking the primary chain tension as maintenance at 20k miles?
Also, for the OP'r - Did you buy the cam chain shoes directly from Cyco, and are both shoes/pads [ inner and outer ] the same shoe? I wanted the videos that were posted in another thread and I know I need to check mine. Did you find it a fairly easy job to replace them?
I did some searching and I see ebay has several shoes/pads for sale but did not see Cyco brand.
Thanks for any info you wish to share.
Is it considered necessary to be checking the primary chain tension as maintenance at 20k miles?
Also, for the OP'r - Did you buy the cam chain shoes directly from Cyco, and are both shoes/pads [ inner and outer ] the same shoe? I wanted the videos that were posted in another thread and I know I need to check mine. Did you find it a fairly easy job to replace them?
I did some searching and I see ebay has several shoes/pads for sale but did not see Cyco brand.
Thanks for any info you wish to share.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 17,548
Likes: 7,197
From: Oxford, Nc
A little bit of a hi-jack.
Is it considered necessary to be checking the primary chain tension as maintenance at 20k miles?
Also, for the OP'r - Did you buy the cam chain shoes directly from Cyco, and are both shoes/pads [ inner and outer ] the same shoe? I wanted the videos that were posted in another thread and I know I need to check mine. Did you find it a fairly easy job to replace them?
I did some searching and I see ebay has several shoes/pads for sale but did not see Cyco brand.
Thanks for any info you wish to share.
Is it considered necessary to be checking the primary chain tension as maintenance at 20k miles?
Also, for the OP'r - Did you buy the cam chain shoes directly from Cyco, and are both shoes/pads [ inner and outer ] the same shoe? I wanted the videos that were posted in another thread and I know I need to check mine. Did you find it a fairly easy job to replace them?
I did some searching and I see ebay has several shoes/pads for sale but did not see Cyco brand.
Thanks for any info you wish to share.
The Cyco Pads are available through Twin Power if you'd like to try them.
Cam Chain Replacement Tensioner Shoes (twinpower-usa.com)