2002 Harley Davidson heritage Softail no spark
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3rd Gear
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 7
Likes: 4
From: ohio
2002 Harley Davidson heritage Softail no spark
Okay guys, I need some help! I have an 02 softail that is getting no spark. The bike ran great, I parked it for two months (at most), went to go start it up and was getting no spark. Just cranks.
I have:
- checked spark with an inline spark tester (no spark)
- All the fuses are good
- Replaced ignition switch
- checked battery cables
- Checked/replaced the coil (ohms are good)
- 12v going to the coil
- checked/replaced the crank position sensor (ohms are good)
- replaced spark plugs
- No check engine light
- All the dash codes are clear (d01Clr and so on)
- I checked for codes by jumping pins 1 and 2 on the plug under the seat and it gave me 44 (44 Current 35 Tachometer?)
- I bought the bike used and never got a key fob with it. (I figured the bike wouldn't even crank if it needed a fob)
Could the ECM have just went out like that? Is there a way to test the ECM? My friend has an 01 softail, can I throw his ECM in my bike to see of that's the issue? Can I buy a used ECM off of eBay or will I need to get a new one from Harley?
I have:
- checked spark with an inline spark tester (no spark)
- All the fuses are good
- Replaced ignition switch
- checked battery cables
- Checked/replaced the coil (ohms are good)
- 12v going to the coil
- checked/replaced the crank position sensor (ohms are good)
- replaced spark plugs
- No check engine light
- All the dash codes are clear (d01Clr and so on)
- I checked for codes by jumping pins 1 and 2 on the plug under the seat and it gave me 44 (44 Current 35 Tachometer?)
- I bought the bike used and never got a key fob with it. (I figured the bike wouldn't even crank if it needed a fob)
Could the ECM have just went out like that? Is there a way to test the ECM? My friend has an 01 softail, can I throw his ECM in my bike to see of that's the issue? Can I buy a used ECM off of eBay or will I need to get a new one from Harley?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,160
Likes: 11,249
From: San Diego, CA
You say "ECM".... so I'm assuming you have Fuel Injection, not a carb with an ICM... correct?
Did you test or replace the plug wires....?
It's cranking but not getting spark... are you checking the inline tester with the plugs (mostly the rear plug) installed in the cylinder...? The twin cam needs compression in the rear cylinder to make spark....
Did you check the 12V to the coil during cranking, to make sure there's not a voltage drop....?
Is it possible that while the bike was parked, some rodents got into the wiring...?
Did you test or replace the plug wires....?
It's cranking but not getting spark... are you checking the inline tester with the plugs (mostly the rear plug) installed in the cylinder...? The twin cam needs compression in the rear cylinder to make spark....
Did you check the 12V to the coil during cranking, to make sure there's not a voltage drop....?
Is it possible that while the bike was parked, some rodents got into the wiring...?
Thread Starter
|
3rd Gear
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 7
Likes: 4
From: ohio
You say "ECM".... so I'm assuming you have Fuel Injection, not a carb with an ICM... correct?
Did you test or replace the plug wires....?
It's cranking but not getting spark... are you checking the inline tester with the plugs (mostly the rear plug) installed in the cylinder...? The twin cam needs compression in the rear cylinder to make spark....
Did you check the 12V to the coil during cranking, to make sure there's not a voltage drop....?
Is it possible that while the bike was parked, some rodents got into the wiring...?
Did you test or replace the plug wires....?
It's cranking but not getting spark... are you checking the inline tester with the plugs (mostly the rear plug) installed in the cylinder...? The twin cam needs compression in the rear cylinder to make spark....
Did you check the 12V to the coil during cranking, to make sure there's not a voltage drop....?
Is it possible that while the bike was parked, some rodents got into the wiring...?
The plug wires both tested good
The plus were installed
I have not checked the 12v while cranking, I will do that.
I do not think any rodents could have gotten to the bike, and I've looked at a lot of the wiring and have found no signs of rodents.
Thread Starter
|
3rd Gear
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 7
Likes: 4
From: ohio
You say "ECM".... so I'm assuming you have Fuel Injection, not a carb with an ICM... correct?
Did you test or replace the plug wires....?
It's cranking but not getting spark... are you checking the inline tester with the plugs (mostly the rear plug) installed in the cylinder...? The twin cam needs compression in the rear cylinder to make spark....
Did you check the 12V to the coil during cranking, to make sure there's not a voltage drop....?
Is it possible that while the bike was parked, some rodents got into the wiring...?
Did you test or replace the plug wires....?
It's cranking but not getting spark... are you checking the inline tester with the plugs (mostly the rear plug) installed in the cylinder...? The twin cam needs compression in the rear cylinder to make spark....
Did you check the 12V to the coil during cranking, to make sure there's not a voltage drop....?
Is it possible that while the bike was parked, some rodents got into the wiring...?
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,160
Likes: 11,249
From: San Diego, CA
IIRC, that would suggest the ICM, the CPS, or maybe even the bank angle sensor..... or the wiring between them...
FYI, the bank angle sensor moved to part of the #68921-01D TSM/ #68923-00D TSSM on Twin Cams... It used to be a stand alone sensor on the EVOs and I believe the 1st or 2nd year Twin Cams when they still used a #68540-96 Turn Signal Canceller Module..
Thread Starter
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3rd Gear
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 7
Likes: 4
From: ohio
I have seen some stuff about the bank angle sensor/tssm. Do you know of a way to test the TSSM or is that like the ICM where there is really no good way to test it? In the mean time I will do my best to look over all of the wiring. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,160
Likes: 11,249
From: San Diego, CA
Electrical stuff is my weak spot.... I hate it, and have to force myself to deal with electrical issues... I get through them, but I am not particularly "gifted" in that area...
I've never checked a TSM or TSSM, so off the top of my head, I got nothing.... I did get hit on my 2003 Heritage and the bank angle sensor shut down the bike... It also reset when I was ready to ride away... Never had one act up that I can remember...
I'm in the middle of a project, but will try to check my 2003 Electrical Diagnostic Manual tomorrow morning, to see if I can understand, then share any testing procedures... I'll also check my 2001 Electrical Diagnostic Manual, but suspect it will be very similar to the 2003...
Hopefully someone will post up if they have experience with testing the BAS....
If there is something else that can cause the coil to not receive 12v while cranking, someone will surely post up to add it to the list...
I've never checked a TSM or TSSM, so off the top of my head, I got nothing.... I did get hit on my 2003 Heritage and the bank angle sensor shut down the bike... It also reset when I was ready to ride away... Never had one act up that I can remember...
I'm in the middle of a project, but will try to check my 2003 Electrical Diagnostic Manual tomorrow morning, to see if I can understand, then share any testing procedures... I'll also check my 2001 Electrical Diagnostic Manual, but suspect it will be very similar to the 2003...
Hopefully someone will post up if they have experience with testing the BAS....
If there is something else that can cause the coil to not receive 12v while cranking, someone will surely post up to add it to the list...
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,160
Likes: 11,249
From: San Diego, CA
I have seen some stuff about the bank angle sensor/tssm. Do you know of a way to test the TSSM or is that like the ICM where there is really no good way to test it? In the mean time I will do my best to look over all of the wiring. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this.
As expected, the checks for the TSM/TSSM in the manual all involve using a Scanalyzer tool or a break out box.
The definition of the BAS function, however, leads me to believe it is NOT your problem.
The manual says that in the event the vehicle tilts more than 45 degrees from vertical for longer than one second, the turn signals, stater motor, ignition controller (ECM/EFI), fuel pump (ECM/EFI) and coil will be disabled..
Since your bike cranks over (starter motor functions), I believe that rules out the BAS as a possible reason your coil doesn't have 12v input...
NOTE:
Again, electrical is not my expertise, but a security circuit wiring diagram shows a LGN/GY wire running from the "Ignition Enable Signal" pin #10 on the TSM/TSSM to the Ignition Module, black connector Pin #10... Not sure if checking that will accomplish anything, because that is for ignition enable, not just coil...
The 12V to the coil (Y/GN), if I read the electrical diagram properly, comes from the "System Relay" on the EFI bikes, but I couldn't find a separate schematic for the carbed bikes... wierd...
But it may be worth checking/changing the relays, they are cheap... or following that 12V wire to its source to ensure it's not pinched/damaged...
Hope some of this helps....
Last edited by hattitude; Jan 24, 2023 at 10:50 AM.
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Thread Starter
|
3rd Gear
Joined: Jan 2023
Posts: 7
Likes: 4
From: ohio
To my surprise, I actually have a 2002 Harley Softail Electrical diagnostic manual....
As expected, the checks for the TSM/TSSM in the manual all involve using a Scanalyzer tool or a break out box.
The definition of the BAS function, however, leads me to believe it is NOT your problem.
The manual says that in the event the vehicle tilts more than 45 degrees from vertical for longer than one second, the turn signals, stater motor, ignition controller (ECM/EFI), fuel pump (ECM/EFI) and coil will be disabled..
Since your bike cranks over (starter motor functions), I believe that rules out the BAS as a possible reason your coil doesn't have 12v input...
I suppose it's possible for the TSM/TSSM to malfunction and just cut out 12V to the coil... but I wouldn't know how to check for that, and without a break-out box or Scanalyzer tool, the manual isn't much help...
As expected, the checks for the TSM/TSSM in the manual all involve using a Scanalyzer tool or a break out box.
The definition of the BAS function, however, leads me to believe it is NOT your problem.
The manual says that in the event the vehicle tilts more than 45 degrees from vertical for longer than one second, the turn signals, stater motor, ignition controller (ECM/EFI), fuel pump (ECM/EFI) and coil will be disabled..
Since your bike cranks over (starter motor functions), I believe that rules out the BAS as a possible reason your coil doesn't have 12v input...
I suppose it's possible for the TSM/TSSM to malfunction and just cut out 12V to the coil... but I wouldn't know how to check for that, and without a break-out box or Scanalyzer tool, the manual isn't much help...
Last edited by JR0B33; Jan 24, 2023 at 10:24 AM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 2,056
Likes: 1,490
From: Black Hills of SD
Could it be as simple as one of the lock out functions, like kickstand, clutch, handle bar on/off switch? Not sure if the bike still cranks over if any of those are faulted, but it was a thought.
Otherwise I would probably be headed in the crank position sensor area, alternator/stator, fuses again [with a ohm meter].
Otherwise I would probably be headed in the crank position sensor area, alternator/stator, fuses again [with a ohm meter].