New Guy EFI tuner questions?
#1
12-21-2008, 10:09 PM
New Guy EFI tuner questions?
I just bought a 2005 Night Train from a feller HDF'er in the classified section.
He lives in Georgia, I live in Colorado.
He told me that the bike has a 95" Big Bore kit with 211 cams. I'm new to harley world so that all sounded cool but in all reality I dont much know the difference. What I have gleaned is that he states it is much stronger and faster than a stock 88 and faster than a new stock? 96" as he told me he lined up with his buddy on a 96" and left him handily.
So my question is this.
What effect if any will the drastic altitude change have on whatever EFI tuning program was used to facilitate the addition of the bigger bore/Cams/Pipes and intake?
Is it safe to assume that the computer will simply compensate and run it leaner at my altitude?
I ride off road bikes and typically need to drop from a 165 main jet all the way down to a 150 in order to run properly up here.
I also have had the compression raised on my last bike via a thinner base gasket to compensate as well.
I asked the seller everything I could about whats on the bike but completely forgot to ask him about the EFI system, what type of tune it was given etc..etc...
The bike is at the shipping company and I should be picking it up after Christmas at that point I will ride it and determine if it feels "Wierd" per se but prior to letting the local Harley dealer go buck wild on my bike as I plan on having them go through and service it, determine what is what etc..etc... I would like to be armed with some info other than from the dealer.
Such as this SERT? If this isnt installed in the bike when I recieve it is this something I should consider?
If so will the local shop tune it to make all the money or will they be held back by EPA regs and the like?
I have also seen/read that the Power Commmander and the fuel Pack? Seem to be hot items as well. Does an 05' need a fuel pack?
Sorry to sound like such an idiot but after days of reading through threas I cant seem to find one simple enough in explaining what is what to help me understand what...Is what!
Any help or tutorial type postings would be way apprieciated.
Thanks!!
Its cool looking...But I dont understand the technical side. At all! I will ask the seller to give me all the info on what has been done to the EFI system tomorrow.
He lives in Georgia, I live in Colorado.
He told me that the bike has a 95" Big Bore kit with 211 cams. I'm new to harley world so that all sounded cool but in all reality I dont much know the difference. What I have gleaned is that he states it is much stronger and faster than a stock 88 and faster than a new stock? 96" as he told me he lined up with his buddy on a 96" and left him handily.
So my question is this.
What effect if any will the drastic altitude change have on whatever EFI tuning program was used to facilitate the addition of the bigger bore/Cams/Pipes and intake?
Is it safe to assume that the computer will simply compensate and run it leaner at my altitude?
I ride off road bikes and typically need to drop from a 165 main jet all the way down to a 150 in order to run properly up here.
I also have had the compression raised on my last bike via a thinner base gasket to compensate as well.
I asked the seller everything I could about whats on the bike but completely forgot to ask him about the EFI system, what type of tune it was given etc..etc...
The bike is at the shipping company and I should be picking it up after Christmas at that point I will ride it and determine if it feels "Wierd" per se but prior to letting the local Harley dealer go buck wild on my bike as I plan on having them go through and service it, determine what is what etc..etc... I would like to be armed with some info other than from the dealer.
Such as this SERT? If this isnt installed in the bike when I recieve it is this something I should consider?
If so will the local shop tune it to make all the money or will they be held back by EPA regs and the like?
I have also seen/read that the Power Commmander and the fuel Pack? Seem to be hot items as well. Does an 05' need a fuel pack?
Sorry to sound like such an idiot but after days of reading through threas I cant seem to find one simple enough in explaining what is what to help me understand what...Is what!
Any help or tutorial type postings would be way apprieciated.
Thanks!!
Its cool looking...But I dont understand the technical side. At all! I will ask the seller to give me all the info on what has been done to the EFI system tomorrow.
Last edited by Chazmanian; 12-21-2008 at 10:12 PM.
#2
12-21-2008, 10:16 PM
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If the bike already has a SERT, it doesn't need a Fuelpak or Power Commander. They're all fuel management tools that do the same type of thing. Some are more user friendly than others that you need to get the dealer to set. You can set the Fuelpak and Power Commander yourself.
#3
12-21-2008, 10:20 PM
So I really need to find out what is in the bike now I guess.
And if its adjustable it will in fact need to be retuned for my altitude?
Thanks man!
I feel straight retarded when I read these threads and folks are throwing around all this wording thats like a different lanquage to my Rookie ***! SERT, Stage 1-2, Fuel Pack, Power Commando etc..etc...
And if its adjustable it will in fact need to be retuned for my altitude?
Thanks man!
I feel straight retarded when I read these threads and folks are throwing around all this wording thats like a different lanquage to my Rookie ***! SERT, Stage 1-2, Fuel Pack, Power Commando etc..etc...
Last edited by Chazmanian; 12-21-2008 at 10:25 PM.
#5
12-22-2008, 08:16 AM
Elite HDF Member
I would just ride it and check the plugs a few times, at first. If the plugs looked good after the first couple of checks and the bike performed okay, I wouldn't do anything.
Do you know how to read the plugs? You can do a Google search and pull up picture charts that will show you what the plugs should look like, if everything is fine and what they will look like if the engine is running lean or rich.
Good luck with your new Harley.
Tom
Do you know how to read the plugs? You can do a Google search and pull up picture charts that will show you what the plugs should look like, if everything is fine and what they will look like if the engine is running lean or rich.
Good luck with your new Harley.
Tom
#6
12-22-2008, 09:24 AM
I do lots of jetting work on my carburated KTM's. So I read plugs and do plug chop tests all the time as I jet differently for winter/summer and dependent on how high up in the mountains I plan on riding.
I'm just a bit confused as to how the Harley EFI functions and if the dealer that did the big bore, pipes and cams simply downloaded some type of generic stage 1? 2? EFI program that will self adjust and calibrate itself to run leaner at high altitude....I know a stocker will simply self adjust itself and needs nothing to run properly.
I guess starting to "Get It" now as I understand that if the bike has an adjustable tuning system such as Power Commander than I will in fact need to get it dynoed and recalibrated. If its just the basic Harley Dealer download stuff then it should self adjust?
I'm just a bit confused as to how the Harley EFI functions and if the dealer that did the big bore, pipes and cams simply downloaded some type of generic stage 1? 2? EFI program that will self adjust and calibrate itself to run leaner at high altitude....I know a stocker will simply self adjust itself and needs nothing to run properly.
I guess starting to "Get It" now as I understand that if the bike has an adjustable tuning system such as Power Commander than I will in fact need to get it dynoed and recalibrated. If its just the basic Harley Dealer download stuff then it should self adjust?
#7
12-22-2008, 10:56 AM
Now I'm Ed-Ju-Ma-Cated.
Spoke with the previous owner and the bike just has the non-adjustable stage 2 mapping.
Local dealer PPHD in the Springs wants to install 32109-08A Harley Race Tuner and get the bike right as he claims it simply will not run right up here with its current mapping.
So its off to the dealership next week for a tuning on their dyno.
They are pricey and quoted me $650.00 for everything and another $190.00 for a 12K service.
Thinking I'll save a few hunnert and buy an unopened SERT off E-Bay as they are wanting over $400.00 for the SERT itself.
Thanks for the help gents!
Spoke with the previous owner and the bike just has the non-adjustable stage 2 mapping.
Local dealer PPHD in the Springs wants to install 32109-08A Harley Race Tuner and get the bike right as he claims it simply will not run right up here with its current mapping.
So its off to the dealership next week for a tuning on their dyno.
They are pricey and quoted me $650.00 for everything and another $190.00 for a 12K service.
Thinking I'll save a few hunnert and buy an unopened SERT off E-Bay as they are wanting over $400.00 for the SERT itself.
Thanks for the help gents!
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#8
12-22-2008, 12:18 PM
Is there a better ("generic") download they could put in that would better fit the altitude you're at without putting in the SERT? It would be cheaper right now and, until you get better understanding of AFR's and the bike, would work for less money. Or at least have it checked first since it may be just fine anyways: EFI will adjust to altitude within certain limits, say over 7,000 feet ASL. A download runs about $75-150 with no dyno adjustment but can be checked on one. I would pass on the "unopened" SERT's available on E-Bay: once you use it on a bike they are not interchangeable to another. Why is someone selling an unused SERT? The price the dealer is charging is probably more for the dyno tuning of the AFR than the install since it's a matter of just uploading it to the ECM but is worth the $$$.
#9
12-22-2008, 01:33 PM
Probably not. Since the MoCo uses Alpha-N (meaning its open loop, off RPM) vice mass air, speed density ect. The only way I've seen that you are going to be able to make it adjustable is to get a Zippie's auto adjuster. You have to either have O2 sensor bungs installed or get pipes that have them. But it replaces the ECU with the stock harness and converts the system's fueling to a closed loop that adjusts via the O2 sensors from the pipes.
There is an article with before and after dynoes on Bikernet.
There is an article with before and after dynoes on Bikernet.
#10
12-22-2008, 03:45 PM
I just recieved my PHD in tunerology.
Evidently the hot ticket here at our altitude both cost and performance wise is the Direct Link dyno tune from this guy:http://www.pp4h-d.com/about.aspx
After speaking with a few locals and doing some research Direct Link dyno tuning is the way I'm going as the HD techs at the dealer are not gonna be able to quite perfect get the numbers this fellow can as they are still governed by....The government!
EPA? No smog testing here in Colorado.
Gonna have him do the direct link tuning on his dyno for $500.00 and probably have him double check over the rest of the bike as well.
Evidently the tuner claims he can do more with the direct link he is using compared to the SERT. Sadly any changes I do will have to go back to him as I wont have the SERT piece under my seat. I dont plan on moving anytime soon nor do I have any mods planned so I'll save the $200.00 and go with D-Link.
If at all possible I'm gonna get some before (Basic stage 2 from Atlanta Harley) and after (Craigs magic) dyno graphs and post them in this thread....
Cheers!
Evidently the hot ticket here at our altitude both cost and performance wise is the Direct Link dyno tune from this guy:http://www.pp4h-d.com/about.aspx
After speaking with a few locals and doing some research Direct Link dyno tuning is the way I'm going as the HD techs at the dealer are not gonna be able to quite perfect get the numbers this fellow can as they are still governed by....The government!
EPA? No smog testing here in Colorado.
Gonna have him do the direct link tuning on his dyno for $500.00 and probably have him double check over the rest of the bike as well.
Evidently the tuner claims he can do more with the direct link he is using compared to the SERT. Sadly any changes I do will have to go back to him as I wont have the SERT piece under my seat. I dont plan on moving anytime soon nor do I have any mods planned so I'll save the $200.00 and go with D-Link.
If at all possible I'm gonna get some before (Basic stage 2 from Atlanta Harley) and after (Craigs magic) dyno graphs and post them in this thread....
Cheers!
Last edited by Chazmanian; 12-22-2008 at 03:50 PM.
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