Liked it so much I ordered on off eBay.. Thanks again for the info.

 

Does your Breakout SE have ABS brakes? If so, have you determined for sure that the horn will fit a Breakout that has ABS? (see my posting just a few posts back on this thread)

If so, I'd really like to know that, as I like that horn a lot too, but my 2014 Breakout has the ABS brakes, and I am concerned that either the ABS unit or the plumbing to/from it might interfere with the mounting of the horn.

Jim G

 

His bike does not have ABS, you can tell from the picture in his signature.

 

Jim thanks- you are definitely telling me everything I want to know. I was eyeballing the HD Stage 4 kits and thinking that looks like a pretty good value- but not sure how that all works with the bike's warranty. Some have said you need to have it all done withing 60 days of buying the bike for coverage by HD, others have said that as long as you have the dealer install it then that dealer can elect to warranty it and not mess with the bike's warranty. I guess I should ask- is your bike under warranty or no? Will dealer frown on tuning with the SEPRT or PV? A lot of uncharted territory for me. Thanks for the heads up on the VSS adjustment. The BO would definitely benefit from a shorter final drive ratio like 3.23 or even 3.34 - I'd have to do the gearing math but I can tell it is way too tall right now- say 2.71 or so?

I'll keep my eyes peeled for a PV deal.

 

Hello from Carson City! I've recently joined the forum and have read most of the Breakout related posts, and have picked up some great ideas along the way. I've had my 2013 Breakout for about 13 months and put about 10,000 miles on her, what a great bike!
Still figuring out how to post pic's and such

 

The HD Stage 4 kit is criticized by some of the aftermarket tuners and engine builders on this forum, but then we need to remember that they are competing with HD for our business, so what do you expect?

A number of them told me I made a mistake by going with that kit because the cam (the 259 cam) is "not good". BUT, when in a separate thread they offered to advise thread pariticpants on cam selection, I described my situation in GREAT detail and asked for their suggestions for a cam, and got ZERO replies offering "a better choice of cam".

The warranty question is tough. Theoretically, the dealer can deny warranty because the Stage 4 RACE kit (the only Stage 4 kit available for the Breakout from HD) is clearly identified as not street legal. However, most dealers do not want to discourage the buying of the kit, as they make good money on it when you consider the shop time consumed to install and tune it, so I think their tendency is to quietly do work under warranty unless the specific failure can be too easily traceable by HD to the kit. Likewise, HD is fooling no one by saying that the kit is for "race use" only. How many racers race an HD tourer, bagger, or Softail?? If they started to get tough on the warranty work on a Stage 4 bike, that profitable Stage 4 business would dry up.

My bike is 3 months old, so yes, it is under warranty.

No HD dealer I know of is going to want to tune with any non HD tuner. But that's not the problem. The real problem is that the HD technicians are technicians, not tuners, AND they are very reluctant to step far outside of EPA-compliant tuning parameters.

The best advice I can in hindsight give you (because I did not know enough myself at the time to do it) is to have the Stage 4 kit installed by the dealership, but have them merely install the "canned" HD Stage 4 tune. Then, break in the engine PROPERLY with that canned tune, and then go to a GOOD aftermarket tuning professional, whom you are able to get multiple CREDIBLE (i.e. knowledgeable and experienced) references on. THAT I suspect will get you a well designed kit (the Stage 4 RACE kit), and a GOOD tune, and the result should be a great bike.

Disregard the HD catalog dyno chart for the kit though. It's pretty much a work of fiction unless you can duplicate whatever miraculously perfect combination of blueprinted engine and exotic exhaust that HD somehow managed to identify for their own dyno testing of the kit, but which they apparently cannot for some reason pass on to actual customers. And, don't forget what I found out from not one, but multiple professional tuners: the balance dentine in the Softails, which includes the Breakout of course, never make as much power as the non-balanced engines on an inertia dynamometer like the Dynojet, because it takes 4 to 5% of the engine power to accelerate the balancer sprockets, shafts, chain, and weights. So, for example, a 110 rwhp unbalanced engine compares to a 105 rwhp balanced engine.

Good luck. Ask lots of questions, and don't commit your money until you are satisfied.

Jim G

 

Jim- thank you sir! I found one of your old threads where you were asking questions / opinions on the S4 kit. I see you managed that install with good results- and I do appreciate you passing on your experiential knowledge (the best kind- beats the "13th cousin" kind.. lol).

So in reality I would never consider the HD kit- but hey I got an expensive HD with full warranty- if I want more pow-pow I gotta play by the HD rules for now. Normally, I' have that TC all apart with heads dropped off at Dave Mackie for the "full enchilada" with extra helping of porting, large valves, fatty cams, matching pistons, etc.

Given the advertised price though and considering it keeps the bike in-warranty, really, the HD S4 Race kit isn't that bad for what it does- and I totally agree about getting with a good tuner after break in. And there's no sayin you can't do further custom work to the SE heads / swap cams later on after warranty is done.

I was thinking the 204 cams might be better- but you can only get the kit with the 259 correct?

Lastly, if you don't mind- What did the kit plus install set you back- please pm me if you don't want to post $ openly.

 

BTW Here's some gratuitous photos of the BO while out at dinner this evening.

 

jt75 paint is great luv it, i concur on oilbag it does look a tad nicer
good job on your scoot team red owns, ill have to say that rocker / breakout is got to be the fastest chit on here

 

The Stage 4 kit is an engineered kit that combines a certain combination of parts to get a good, and predictable, level of performance and reliability. The danger in swapping out individual components is that you "unbalance" the kit, so that it no longer works nearly as well.

I am no engine expert whatsoever, but here is one simple example: The kit includes forged (good!!) pistons that are nominally 10.5 to 1 compression. However, with any cam, and particularly a long duration cam like the 259E cam, the actual compression is of course lower, since the intake and exhaust ports don't open and close at TDC and BDC.

If you substitute a cam that has longer duration than the 259E, the actual compression will be lower. Lower compression reduces power. So, a nominally higher compression piston is required. So, the longer duration cam and the 10.5 to 1 pistons are no longer a good "match", sen though both are individually good components.

Likewise, if you substitute a shorter duration cam, the actual compression Increases. While this produces more torque and therefore more power, it also can make the actual compression high enough to cause detonation, which is of course highly destructive.

When the engine experts, or at least purported experts, were critiquing my engine build in that very long thread about dyno results, etc, they basically said that to make decent power, a cold cranking compression test needed to show at least 190. They also said though that going much above 200 to 210 on a street engine was pushing it. My engine reads a bit over 210 on the CCP test. So, subbing a shorter duration cam, which would produce even higher CCP, could have been troublesome.

Keep all the above in mind if you decide to try to get the dealer to sub a different cam.

As for cost, my numbers were somewhat obscured by the fact that I had included some Stage 1 type stuff in the original bike deal, and then got offered a good deal to do the Stage 4 kit, as local weather had hampered the shop's sales at the time. I also insisted on the best technician in the shop doing the work. As near as I can figure, the true cost to me of doing the Stage 4 kit, kit plus labor, was in the $2600 to $2900 range. But, I also may recover some money by selling some of the takeoff parts (the stock heads, for example).

Jim G