2021 cable clutch
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 6,088
Likes: 6,445
From: East TN
Saves the MOCO a bunch of $/unit - compare cost of all parts required for just the clutch control, excluding actual clutch components. Combine that with reducing the carryover complaints, and the "lever feel" some folks hate, and it's plausible, the bean counters and engineers listened to each other.
MSRP for the complete cable setup is $199.84.
MSRP for the hydraulic control setup is $523.78
MSRP for the complete cable setup is $199.84.
MSRP for the hydraulic control setup is $523.78
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 23,001
Likes: 11,441
Yes, clutch rod was a big part of it. Many many experiments to try something to fix it. ( a million threads in the M8 Section) I owned a 2017 RK right after they came out and gave the MoCo 5 attempts to fix the issue before I made them give me a whole new exact replacement bike. It did it as well along with some other issues. I traded it backwards into a 2014 SGS with 4k miles on it couldn't be happier.
HD had some issue with the HYD system . Warranty repairs on some. customers complainants about the feel and engagement point . HD gave up saved some money in the process . The clutch rod did nothing to solve it.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,602
Likes: 721
From: Bellevue, NE
Saw that Paladino post. Then watched it. For a pro he uses the clutch like an amateur. No wonder he has so many problems. He actually uses his entire hand on the clutch and is not even holding the grip with any fingers.
I am not surprised someone with such poor technique has problems with the hydro clutch. Shocking that he is teaching people in such an unsafe manner.
For people who think the throw is too far out, try one of these accepted best practice techniques. 1. Hold grip with pinky and ring finger and use index and middle to activate clutch, 2. Use all thee fingers to hold grip and index for clutch. 3. Use middle finger for clutch and the other 3 to hold the grip.
It IS NEVER SAFE to use all fingers on the clutch since you have no actual control of the grip, EXCEPT if stopped for a long period and you need the relief, but then immediately regain your control grip.
You will find the friction zone is simple to control and in a perfect position. It is the same with the brake. You alway ride with one finger on the lever and at most use 2 to activate.
It is pretty obvious he can ride slow well but he has obviously never raced anything or done trials or extreme enduro or harescrambles where proper clutch usage and activation and bike control are critical.
I am not surprised someone with such poor technique has problems with the hydro clutch. Shocking that he is teaching people in such an unsafe manner.
For people who think the throw is too far out, try one of these accepted best practice techniques. 1. Hold grip with pinky and ring finger and use index and middle to activate clutch, 2. Use all thee fingers to hold grip and index for clutch. 3. Use middle finger for clutch and the other 3 to hold the grip.
It IS NEVER SAFE to use all fingers on the clutch since you have no actual control of the grip, EXCEPT if stopped for a long period and you need the relief, but then immediately regain your control grip.
You will find the friction zone is simple to control and in a perfect position. It is the same with the brake. You alway ride with one finger on the lever and at most use 2 to activate.
It is pretty obvious he can ride slow well but he has obviously never raced anything or done trials or extreme enduro or harescrambles where proper clutch usage and activation and bike control are critical.
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 447
Likes: 427
From: Midwest
Sad to hear they get poor training. Greatly increases the potential for accidents.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,476
Likes: 3,003
From: Charleston, SC
For street riding, it's smart to use all fingers all the time so you're accustomed to how braking feels with a full grip. Most people automatically grab the lever with all fingers naturally in an emergency situation without thinking.
If you've only been using 2 or 3 and you suddenly grab the lever with all 4, you may over react and ****** up too much brake.
Furthermore using only 2 or 3 leaves open the chance of getting a random finger under the lever to be smashed by the other three or worse yet, limit full lever pull (finger in the way) and not get enough brake or clutch.
For racing and trail riding, yeah... I get it. Do it myself. But for the average rider and average riding... use all four.
This isn't poor training. It's the most basic technique taught in every motorcycle course about everywhere and how nearly everyone learns to use their levers when first learning to ride.
Can't think of a downside to be taught to use the full capability of the controls at least for the beginner.
That said, you do you. It's cool if you think you know better.
Last edited by lp; Jan 16, 2021 at 11:14 AM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 14,159
Likes: 11,249
From: San Diego, CA
Apples to oranges.... they're both fruits but....
What's best for racing, doesn't always translate to what's best for the street.... different types of "control" are needed for optimum results in different scenarios...
Add to that, there will be differing opinions on what's best.... almost every technique has pros & cons... risk v benefit...
It's hard to make a "one rule fits all... all the time" for any discipline...
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 4,683
Likes: 3,977
From: Near Yosemite
Clutch had nothing to do with it never did. If so why then did some do it and some not? I know some did seem it. But my early 2017 did not ever so blows that rod stuff right out the door. The HYD clutch had nothing to do with it. If anything pressure issie is likely but even that is question able. Why did some transfer a lot other small amount . We may never know.
HD had some issue with the HYD system . Warranty repairs on some. customers complainants about the feel and engagement point . HD gave up saved some money in the process . The clutch rod did nothing to solve it.
HD had some issue with the HYD system . Warranty repairs on some. customers complainants about the feel and engagement point . HD gave up saved some money in the process . The clutch rod did nothing to solve it.
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Tourer
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 447
Likes: 427
From: Midwest
It's actually the reason its trained that way - to avoid accidents/safety and it's trained that way by the MSF as well.
For street riding, it's smart to use all fingers all the time so you're accustomed to how braking feels with a full grip. Most people automatically grab the lever with all fingers naturally in an emergency situation without thinking.
If you've only been using 2 or 3 and you suddenly grab the lever with all 4, you may over react and ****** up too much brake.
Furthermore using only 2 or 3 leaves open the chance of getting a random finger under the lever to be smashed by the other three or worse yet, limit full lever pull (finger in the way) and not get enough brake or clutch.
For racing and trail riding, yeah... I get it. Do it myself. But for the average rider and average riding... use all four.
This isn't poor training. It's the most basic technique taught in every motorcycle course about everywhere and how nearly everyone learns to use their levers when first learning to ride.
Can't think of a downside to be taught to use the full capability of the controls at least for the beginner.
That said, you do you. It's cool if you think you know better.
For street riding, it's smart to use all fingers all the time so you're accustomed to how braking feels with a full grip. Most people automatically grab the lever with all fingers naturally in an emergency situation without thinking.
If you've only been using 2 or 3 and you suddenly grab the lever with all 4, you may over react and ****** up too much brake.
Furthermore using only 2 or 3 leaves open the chance of getting a random finger under the lever to be smashed by the other three or worse yet, limit full lever pull (finger in the way) and not get enough brake or clutch.
For racing and trail riding, yeah... I get it. Do it myself. But for the average rider and average riding... use all four.
This isn't poor training. It's the most basic technique taught in every motorcycle course about everywhere and how nearly everyone learns to use their levers when first learning to ride.
Can't think of a downside to be taught to use the full capability of the controls at least for the beginner.
That said, you do you. It's cool if you think you know better.
Sine we are referring to the Harley Hydro clutch, not some imaginary hypothetical one. The way the hydro clutch is set up, you won't crush your fingers pulling in. The engagement point is set for a proper clutch hand grip. If the MSF is still teaching cable technique in the hydro age they should consider updating their ciriculum.
That is the point. You will have the most control of the grip and the clutch with proper grip technique and always covering your clutch with at least a finger. Doesnt matter where or how you ride or your level of experience.
If you ride with a finger on the brake you will brake with one finger. It is the the most ergonomic and natural hand position. I believe ABS was created for guys who were taught the hold then grab technique. It is aImost impossible to control a panic reaction if you grip and grab. Thus the other techniques were developed to increase safety and prevent the scenarios the four finger brake technique creates. Thus the " i grabbed a handfull of brake and went down" refrain from people who use grip and grab.
The basic and fundamental point is as technology changes so do techniques. With the advent of ABS it covers for a lot of the poor brake technique you describe.
I really don't care what people do. It is America. Ride free. Just pointing out that the comments about the clutch need to be in context.
If you think you know better, then by all means, you do you.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 11,476
Likes: 3,003
From: Charleston, SC
I can think of lots of downsides.
Sine we are referring to the Harley Hydro clutch, not some imaginary hypothetical one. The way the hydro clutch is set up, you won't crush your fingers pulling in. The engagement point is set for a proper clutch hand grip. If the MSF is still teaching cable technique in the hydro age they should consider updating their ciriculum.
That is the point. You will have the most control of the grip and the clutch with proper grip technique and always covering your clutch with at least a finger. Doesnt matter where or how you ride or your level of experience.
If you ride with a finger on the brake you will brake with one finger. It is the the most ergonomic and natural hand position. I believe ABS was created for guys who were taught the hold then grab technique. It is aImost impossible to control a panic reaction if you grip and grab. Thus the other techniques were developed to increase safety and prevent the scenarios the four finger brake technique creates. Thus the " i grabbed a handfull of brake and went down" refrain from people who use grip and grab.
The basic and fundamental point is as technology changes so do techniques. With the advent of ABS it covers for a lot of the poor brake technique you describe.
I really don't care what people do. It is America. Ride free. Just pointing out that the comments about the clutch need to be in context.
If you think you know better, then by all means, you do you.
Sine we are referring to the Harley Hydro clutch, not some imaginary hypothetical one. The way the hydro clutch is set up, you won't crush your fingers pulling in. The engagement point is set for a proper clutch hand grip. If the MSF is still teaching cable technique in the hydro age they should consider updating their ciriculum.
That is the point. You will have the most control of the grip and the clutch with proper grip technique and always covering your clutch with at least a finger. Doesnt matter where or how you ride or your level of experience.
If you ride with a finger on the brake you will brake with one finger. It is the the most ergonomic and natural hand position. I believe ABS was created for guys who were taught the hold then grab technique. It is aImost impossible to control a panic reaction if you grip and grab. Thus the other techniques were developed to increase safety and prevent the scenarios the four finger brake technique creates. Thus the " i grabbed a handfull of brake and went down" refrain from people who use grip and grab.
The basic and fundamental point is as technology changes so do techniques. With the advent of ABS it covers for a lot of the poor brake technique you describe.
I really don't care what people do. It is America. Ride free. Just pointing out that the comments about the clutch need to be in context.
If you think you know better, then by all means, you do you.
There is no Hydraulic vs cable technique btw. No street vs trail/offroad either. Nor, "covering the clutch or brakes" which is considered a bad habit - but I even do this...
In an emergency, riders rarely pull in the lever "just the amount" needed. On a misadjusted clutch you might need the full lever range anyway.
It's about muscle memory really. Teach the rider to use the same technique every time, so there are no surprises.
Use your full grip every time and practice variable pressure to get a predictable outcome - better chance for a good outcome in an emergency.
Also, it's hard to move the lever inward enough to leave enough room for a pinky on the grip on a Harley; although, there are shorty levers available these days. Kinda cool.
Typically, new riders become frightened when they see the big truck coming at them and snap the lever(s) to the grip (ouch my finger) but yay ABS? I get it.
But on the other side, most are not going to get full braking with just one finger in an emergency either..
Anyway, good talk. You should write the MSF, Police, etc and tell them to use your superior techniques and how "poor" theirs are. Might make some money selling How-to CDs?
Last edited by lp; Jan 16, 2021 at 12:41 PM. Reason: formatting... might be readable now?