New Road King - Suggestions?
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Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 241
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From: Northern Virginia
New Road King - Suggestions?
I've got build date in December for my 2008 RK (standard model with ABS, cruise, and the security system). Although I've been riding for decades, this will be my first Harley, and so I'm still trying to get the lay of the land. I've been lurking here for a few months and find the information here very helpful. Lots of good discussion.
I know the stock bikes run lean (and hot) because of EPA requirements. My plan is to run it stock until the 1000-mile service, at which point I'll install a Rinehart True Dual exhaust, SE air cleaner, and SERT (or some other engine management controller). Is that a reasonable plan, sufficient to address the leanness/hot-running issues? Is running 1000 miles at stock (too high) temperatures too long?
Regarding the SERT, I believe it requires a dyno in order to make any adjustments. That's ok, I suppose (I expect to get it dialed in once and then be able to forget about it). But I notice in the Oct 2008 issue of American Rider magazine, they review the Cobra Fi2000R EFI Tuner - which is user adjustable. I know the SERT is very popular, but its need for a dyno makes me wonder if the Cobra, or a similar user-adjustable ECM, might not be better?
Finally, I'm wondering about the logistics around these engine/exhaust mods. I know that ideally you'd do them all at the same time. But since the SERT has to be installed by the dealer (I, uhm, don't have a dyno in my shed), is it ok for me to install the Rinehart and SE air cleaner at home, then ride to my dealer using the stock ECM?
Thanks in advance.
I know the stock bikes run lean (and hot) because of EPA requirements. My plan is to run it stock until the 1000-mile service, at which point I'll install a Rinehart True Dual exhaust, SE air cleaner, and SERT (or some other engine management controller). Is that a reasonable plan, sufficient to address the leanness/hot-running issues? Is running 1000 miles at stock (too high) temperatures too long?
Regarding the SERT, I believe it requires a dyno in order to make any adjustments. That's ok, I suppose (I expect to get it dialed in once and then be able to forget about it). But I notice in the Oct 2008 issue of American Rider magazine, they review the Cobra Fi2000R EFI Tuner - which is user adjustable. I know the SERT is very popular, but its need for a dyno makes me wonder if the Cobra, or a similar user-adjustable ECM, might not be better?
Finally, I'm wondering about the logistics around these engine/exhaust mods. I know that ideally you'd do them all at the same time. But since the SERT has to be installed by the dealer (I, uhm, don't have a dyno in my shed), is it ok for me to install the Rinehart and SE air cleaner at home, then ride to my dealer using the stock ECM?
Thanks in advance.
Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
From:
RE: New Road King - Suggestions?
You can do that just don't drive it to far,15-20mi,would be my limit.And it will ride rough then.You can do this,Put all changes on yourself,sert ,pipes and a/c,put the closeest map in you can.Then take it to a different dealer other than where you bought it.Tell hem you just changed the exaust and youwon't themto set the map and Dyno and they will think its always been on there,I'm not saying Lie,just don't tell them everything.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,272
Likes: 3
From: Slidell, Louisiana
RE: New Road King - Suggestions?
The sert does not require a dyno but it would be very wise to get one done. You can adjust and tune with the sert as much as you want all you need is a laptop. You need the dyno to get it right the first time. If you do more to your bike later the sert will be your tool to adjust and tune it in. As of now that's all i know is available for the 08s is the sert but by the time you get your bike in late 09(just kidding) there might be more out there to choose from. I went with the sert because that's all that was out for my 08 and i did not want to play with it i wanted to get a good tune with my upgrades and put the sert in the safe. You should read all you can about the sert and the pcIII and many others to see what will fit with your ideas for your bike. Right here is a good start. No one tuning tool is the right one for everyone.
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,817
Likes: 4
From: MONTGOMERY,AL.
RE: New Road King - Suggestions?
Good advice. I would just let one dealer do everything. The SERTs are basically troublefree once dialed in by a competent tech. I have had mine almost 4 years and no trouble or additional adjustments have been made. In case of a problem or error with the mods you have a good case with the dealer if adjustments are required later. With your handy work involved the dealer may be less inclined to stand behind everything. But as previously stated ,you can go ahead and save a bit by pre installing the equipment as the others have stated,if saving a hundred bucks or so is important. We hate to have customers partially complete work because we dont know if the torque on the nuts are ok or if some errors in installation have occuured. If the hundred bucks is not that important, buy the parts at the dealer and let them do the whole installation. Heres how a dealer looks at such things: A guy walks into a restaurant with a package and says " HOW ABOUT FIXING MY BREAKFAST, I HAVE MY OWN BACON AND EGGS".If you can get the prices for less on line for the parts tell the dealer and he will most likely meet or beat those prices. They already know about internet pricing and when necessary will match those prices. Believe me ,you will get a better job this way and have a legitimate complaint to the intalling dealer should a problem arise. That is the reason you have so many problems with new homes. Too many sub-contractors involved and the general contractor who is responsible for the whole house has trouble determining who is responsible for a given problem once you move in. Always let ONE guy do the work if possible. For example, There have never been but 2 different techs work on my bike in the over 4 years I have had it and I believe that is a major reason why after 40 plus thousand miles I have had only a couple of problems. I always ask for the same guy. GOOD LUCK.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: Northern Virginia
RE: New Road King - Suggestions?
Actually, I'd just as soon let the dealer install everything - the SERT, air cleaner, and exhaust - just to get it all done in the cleanest way possible, and to avoid any potential down-the-road warranty questions. But I've assumed that HD dealers won't install the Rineharts. Am I mistaken in that?
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 580
Likes: 4
From: Sauble Beach
RE: New Road King - Suggestions?
Technically you are possibly "voiding" warranty with non-EPA compliant components (including SERT). Any dealer will comply with your installation request.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,609
Likes: 1
From: Indy area
RE: New Road King - Suggestions?
The number of days left to be able to walk into a dealership and have them install non-EPA stuff on a road-going bike are getting fewer, mark my words. Also expect that if you show up with a bike that's supposed to be EPA-compliant and you want them to work on anything emissions-related, that it will be compliant again when it leaves the dealer (meaning you'll have to pay for any new components necessary to get it there) or they won't touch it. The fines on the books are already large, and you know how government is always looking for ways to trim the sheep's fleece a little closer. Going after non-compliant vehicles is going to be a very easy thing to do, and those who professionally work on them are going to get hammered hard.
Once all the pros are beaten into submission, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they put some teeth in the laws that'll make it worth their while to chase down folks who wrench on their own stuff.
The SERT with other-than-specified components for a canned map really does require dyno time to properly populate the VE tables. Tuning it is another matter, and that can be done on or off the dyno. But the VE tables must be populated correctly or anything you do off the dyno later will be just pissing in the open on a gusty day. You may not get anything on your pants or shoes, but can't count on it. You cannot populate the VE tables everywhere off a dyno or absent a gas sniffer. The O2 sensors can be used in the closed-loop areas if necessary care and consideration are taken, but everything outside closed-loop has to have exhaust gas analysis to populate them correctly. This has to be easiest quickest, and surest on a dyno, and the skill level of the technician really isn't all that important, unless you're then going for the fine-tuning once you have the proper VE values.
Once all the pros are beaten into submission, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they put some teeth in the laws that'll make it worth their while to chase down folks who wrench on their own stuff.
The SERT with other-than-specified components for a canned map really does require dyno time to properly populate the VE tables. Tuning it is another matter, and that can be done on or off the dyno. But the VE tables must be populated correctly or anything you do off the dyno later will be just pissing in the open on a gusty day. You may not get anything on your pants or shoes, but can't count on it. You cannot populate the VE tables everywhere off a dyno or absent a gas sniffer. The O2 sensors can be used in the closed-loop areas if necessary care and consideration are taken, but everything outside closed-loop has to have exhaust gas analysis to populate them correctly. This has to be easiest quickest, and surest on a dyno, and the skill level of the technician really isn't all that important, unless you're then going for the fine-tuning once you have the proper VE values.
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