DYNO Numbers for Baggers???
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,909
Likes: 6
From: Livingston, Texas
I've been asking the same question for months. Perhaps we now have a common demonoinator. I've re-tuned 4 times w/ 2 tuners, the last has much more midrange. I Thought a simple 103 w/ se204's would do well in my trike. After trying 4 sets of (different levels of back pressure) mufflers, still lacking top end (in any gear), and still staying below 70 HP and 90 Ft. Lbs, I asked NIGHTRIDER.COM for help, as 2 shops "gave up". We can all learn from what was said, bearing in mind that a Dyno is all about throttle, w/ little relationship to the real world on ANY EFI engine, it's only a tool for showing what's wrong.
From: performance
Sent: Feb 13, 2011 4:11 PM
To: 'stoood'
SUBJECT: 08 FLH, SE 103 kit, SERT, V&H Duals w/ "BUB 7 Stealths", SE204's, Kury Intake
BODY { BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt}P { MARGIN: 0px}
From: performance
Sent: Feb 13, 2011 4:11 PM
To: 'stoood'
SUBJECT: 08 FLH, SE 103 kit, SERT, V&H Duals w/ "BUB 7 Stealths", SE204's, Kury Intake
BODY { BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt}P { MARGIN: 0px}
Your current issue is a component problem and basic tuning issue. The V&H True Dual Headers are hurting your power. Historically these header pipes have just not been a good performance choice. I could not think of a worse choice if I had to. There is nothing inherently wrong with the BUB 7 mufflers.
There are also some obvious issues with the fuel/ignition maps downloaded by SERT into your ECM. I am not sure what gear you are talking about "no power above 4200", but if you are talking about 5/6 gear on the street, this is to be expected. Your Dyno sheet pretty much shows this with max HP reached by 4200 RPMs and torque dropping off dramatically.
Your engine power is about where I a stock engine should be. A 103 engine with the SE204 cam should be around 80HP range. I strongly suspect the choice of exhaust system is the power bottleneck, along with some major ECM tuning issues. Installing the LC-1's is not going to fix these basic issues.
Stephen Mullen
S&P Mullen Enterprises, Inc
Stephen Mullen
S&P Mullen Enterprises, Inc
I do hope I have not broken any rules quoting Mullen Enterprises (My apologies if so). I am very priviledged in my corresponding with them. As I am only 34 miles from the reference Dyno, and don't mind funding another run (the last one was on the house), I'll change pipes if I get some good input on other's experience with various duals. I can repost after the new run (all were 5th gear). Any constructive info on tuned pipes, or the V&H issue is welcomed (Duals are all that will fit on my trike). Stock pipes were suggested, which makes sense as they add low end torque (but I dislike the heat radiated by them). As a control, I'll try to get in the Dyno shoot-out that's held at J&P Cycle, just 9 miles away (I run the 113Hp/109Tq. Springer 103 that's in my Signature often). It may show the variance Dyno's inherently have. Thanks in advance,
Stoood.
Ps. Am I alone in simply hating the SERT? My TTS is much better
Stoood.
Ps. Am I alone in simply hating the SERT? My TTS is much betterOne still has the set of True Dual Reinheart laying in a shed.
The other dude trades his bike and got another one.
I've been asking the same question for months. Perhaps we now have a common demonoinator. I've re-tuned 4 times w/ 2 tuners, the last has much more midrange. I Thought a simple 103 w/ se204's would do well in my trike. After trying 4 sets of (different levels of back pressure) mufflers, still lacking top end (in any gear), and still staying below 70 HP and 90 Ft. Lbs, I asked NIGHTRIDER.COM for help, as 2 shops "gave up". We can all learn from what was said, bearing in mind that a Dyno is all about throttle, w/ little relationship to the real world on ANY EFI engine, it's only a tool for showing what's wrong.
From: performance
Sent: Feb 13, 2011 4:11 PM
To: 'stoood'
SUBJECT: 08 FLH, SE 103 kit, SERT, V&H Duals w/ "BUB 7 Stealths", SE204's, Kury Intake
BODY { BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt}P { MARGIN: 0px}
From: performance
Sent: Feb 13, 2011 4:11 PM
To: 'stoood'
SUBJECT: 08 FLH, SE 103 kit, SERT, V&H Duals w/ "BUB 7 Stealths", SE204's, Kury Intake
BODY { BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff; FONT-FAMILY: arial,sans-serif; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt}P { MARGIN: 0px}
Your current issue is a component problem and basic tuning issue. The V&H True Dual Headers are hurting your power. Historically these header pipes have just not been a good performance choice. I could not think of a worse choice if I had to. There is nothing inherently wrong with the BUB 7 mufflers.
There are also some obvious issues with the fuel/ignition maps downloaded by SERT into your ECM. I am not sure what gear you are talking about "no power above 4200", but if you are talking about 5/6 gear on the street, this is to be expected. Your Dyno sheet pretty much shows this with max HP reached by 4200 RPMs and torque dropping off dramatically.
Your engine power is about where I a stock engine should be. A 103 engine with the SE204 cam should be around 80HP range. I strongly suspect the choice of exhaust system is the power bottleneck, along with some major ECM tuning issues. Installing the LC-1's is not going to fix these basic issues.
Stephen Mullen
S&P Mullen Enterprises, Inc
Stephen Mullen
S&P Mullen Enterprises, Inc
I do hope I have not broken any rules quoting Mullen Enterprises (My apologies if so). I am very priviledged in my corresponding with them. As I am only 34 miles from the reference Dyno, and don't mind funding another run (the last one was on the house), I'll change pipes if I get some good input on other's experience with various duals. I can repost after the new run (all were 5th gear). Any constructive info on tuned pipes, or the V&H issue is welcomed (Duals are all that will fit on my trike). Stock pipes were suggested, which makes sense as they add low end torque (but I dislike the heat radiated by them). As a control, I'll try to get in the Dyno shoot-out that's held at J&P Cycle, just 9 miles away (I run the 113Hp/109Tq. Springer 103 that's in my Signature often). It may show the variance Dyno's inherently have. Thanks in advance,
Stoood. Ps. Am I alone in simply hating the SERT? My TTS is much better
Stoood.
Ps. Am I alone in simply hating the SERT? My TTS is much betteri'll agree that the true duals are the weak link in your build, they are holding you back but not killing it. I still say there's something in the tune. Do you know if they tuned your ignition tables at all? Or just the VE tables?
Road Captain
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 742
Likes: 4
From: Twin Cities, MN
...and your avatar ain't so bad either!!
Novice
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Fresh Dyno 2010 Electra Glide
Stock Hp 62.21 Tq 75.64
Added V&H Power Duals, Monster Ovals, Drak AC and TTS Mastertune
Hp 77.14 Tq 87.76
AFR curve relatively flat across the rpm range at target of 13.6.
Dyno sheet doesn't lie. Tuned by tuner at Ray Price HD in Raleigh NC. Couldn't be happier.
Added V&H Power Duals, Monster Ovals, Drak AC and TTS Mastertune
Hp 77.14 Tq 87.76
AFR curve relatively flat across the rpm range at target of 13.6.
Dyno sheet doesn't lie. Tuned by tuner at Ray Price HD in Raleigh NC. Couldn't be happier.
Stage I
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Bossier City, Louisiana
2010 Street Glide, V&H xpipe trud duels, 4" reinharts, 211 cams, programmer, stage II Air cleaner.
101hp, and 112 tq
101hp, and 112 tq
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
10 Things Harley-Davidson Needs to Fix in 2026
Verdad Gallardo
Stage III
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
2009 ultra dyno figures
2009 ultra with hillside 107 and stg 4 heads ,1.800 intake
hpi 54 mm .2 piece T.B.flowed 1.800 intake, 5.3 inj.
woods 400-6 cams, & springs, Lifters
fulsac x pipe reinhart slipons
tts tuner, doherty p/p , hillside green a/f
std 120/120
sae 118/118
love that trq curve, pulls harddddddd
hpi 54 mm .2 piece T.B.flowed 1.800 intake, 5.3 inj.
woods 400-6 cams, & springs, Lifters
fulsac x pipe reinhart slipons
tts tuner, doherty p/p , hillside green a/f
std 120/120
sae 118/118
love that trq curve, pulls harddddddd
Tourer
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 438
Likes: 2
From: Florida
EG Classic upgrade
Dyno chart is from a 2009 Electra Glide Classic, has stock pipes (2-1-2 with no cat) and V&H Monster Oval slip-ons.
Dealer just installed the SE stage II kit: 103 pistons and jugs, 255 cams, SE air cleaner. Heads are still stock. He put in a PCV and dyno tuned.
Between 3000 and 4200 RPM the new torque curve stays over 100. Stock torque had been around 70 in this range.
I only have about 50 miles on this build so far and I'm trying to take it easy for break-in, but it's tough. It sounds different and may be louder. Only downside so far is that it seems to shake more at idle.
It feels strong and from what I've read in this thread I think these performance numbers are good, but I'd appreciate any comments from people more experienced in reading these dyno charts. Thanks.
Dealer just installed the SE stage II kit: 103 pistons and jugs, 255 cams, SE air cleaner. Heads are still stock. He put in a PCV and dyno tuned.
Between 3000 and 4200 RPM the new torque curve stays over 100. Stock torque had been around 70 in this range.
I only have about 50 miles on this build so far and I'm trying to take it easy for break-in, but it's tough. It sounds different and may be louder. Only downside so far is that it seems to shake more at idle.
It feels strong and from what I've read in this thread I think these performance numbers are good, but I'd appreciate any comments from people more experienced in reading these dyno charts. Thanks.
Last edited by snowmass; Mar 6, 2011 at 04:16 PM.