OMG Please help.
Banned
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,719
Likes: 1
Ok, just a little more food for thought. Since yer getting the pros to fix yer prob, maybe this can assist some one else...
I've seen with heli coil, when you break off the little tab at the bottom, once the heli coil is in place, there is sometimes a small portion which can grab the bolt like a lock washer digging into the head. The bolt goes in fine, feeling normal. But when you try to back it out, the little sharp point where the tail of the heli coil was snapped off, digs in like a lock washer digging into the head of a bolt. This makes it nearly impossible to remove the bolt with the heli coil because the heli coil will expand just like twisting a spring opposite of coil direction, (if ya know what I mean)...
I have, on many occasions, resorted to drilling the bolt out all the way up to the thread, essentially leaving nothing but thread. Then using a sharpened file I dug the threads out. You have to be very careful when doing this, because like most of you figured already, you can dig the threads out of the casing instead. This is ok to a point. Seriously, I've ruined as much as 20% of the case thread, and still had good results with torquing the new bolt.
This also works if you happen to drill off center, expecting to use an easy-out. Just let the drill take part of the threads out for you. Then you can fold in the two sides of thread, and the thicker portion of the bolt will slip toward center allowing removal.
The fact that you are also dealing with the heli coil in there, would probably force you to dig the heli coil out after removing the bolt threads. Alot of work but with patience, it can be done. I have done it myself, more than once. This is not a 'my friend told me of a trick' thing...
I've seen with heli coil, when you break off the little tab at the bottom, once the heli coil is in place, there is sometimes a small portion which can grab the bolt like a lock washer digging into the head. The bolt goes in fine, feeling normal. But when you try to back it out, the little sharp point where the tail of the heli coil was snapped off, digs in like a lock washer digging into the head of a bolt. This makes it nearly impossible to remove the bolt with the heli coil because the heli coil will expand just like twisting a spring opposite of coil direction, (if ya know what I mean)...
I have, on many occasions, resorted to drilling the bolt out all the way up to the thread, essentially leaving nothing but thread. Then using a sharpened file I dug the threads out. You have to be very careful when doing this, because like most of you figured already, you can dig the threads out of the casing instead. This is ok to a point. Seriously, I've ruined as much as 20% of the case thread, and still had good results with torquing the new bolt.
This also works if you happen to drill off center, expecting to use an easy-out. Just let the drill take part of the threads out for you. Then you can fold in the two sides of thread, and the thicker portion of the bolt will slip toward center allowing removal.
The fact that you are also dealing with the heli coil in there, would probably force you to dig the heli coil out after removing the bolt threads. Alot of work but with patience, it can be done. I have done it myself, more than once. This is not a 'my friend told me of a trick' thing...
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Louisville, KY
Egldr05, Yeah, I tried to keep everything as clean as possible, including plugging the hole below the dowel pin as I butchered it. A lot of the shiny reflections, I think are an optical illusion. My cell phone takes horrible pictures. I had everything covered in towels before I started messing with it, but just for good measure I will run a magnet around the casing before I put it all back together. Thanks for the suggestion.
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 656
Likes: 0
From: gone
Just so everyone knows Im still listening... Here is what I did.. step by step.
1. Bought an expensive AMERICAN made vice grips. Wouldnt budge.
2. I taped the bolt again and tried the two nut trick, unfortunately the bolt wasnt long enough for two nuts.
3. Bought a mini pipe wrench. Did just about as good as the vice grips.
4. I cut the stud and drilled a pilot hole, unfortunatly the hole was just a hair out of center, so drilling it completely though wasnt an option.
5. Bought and easy out. Used the hole from above to guide another bigger bit through. The dowel pin started to spin which gave me great hope! Then, the easy out snapped in the hole. Now I have part of a jagged easy out sticking out of the damn thing.
I just hope its not any more expensive then it would have been to pay an Indy to just replace the chain guides. If so, thats just poop tasting icing on the cake!
Thanks again!
-Cory
1. Bought an expensive AMERICAN made vice grips. Wouldnt budge.
2. I taped the bolt again and tried the two nut trick, unfortunately the bolt wasnt long enough for two nuts.
3. Bought a mini pipe wrench. Did just about as good as the vice grips.
4. I cut the stud and drilled a pilot hole, unfortunatly the hole was just a hair out of center, so drilling it completely though wasnt an option.
5. Bought and easy out. Used the hole from above to guide another bigger bit through. The dowel pin started to spin which gave me great hope! Then, the easy out snapped in the hole. Now I have part of a jagged easy out sticking out of the damn thing.
I just hope its not any more expensive then it would have been to pay an Indy to just replace the chain guides. If so, thats just poop tasting icing on the cake!
Thanks again!
-Cory
Man, I know that sucks. Been there working on cars, but your reply just killed me. I am still chuckling.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,005
Likes: 53
From: ID Ho
Just for future reference when it comes to broken bolts like this, heat is your friend, EZ outs are the enemy.
If it wont come out with a pair of vice grips an EZ out WILL break 99.9999999999999% of the time. You can apply a ton more pressure to the bolt with vice grips than you can to an EZ out. Broken EZ outs dont drill EZ!
Heat the area AROUND the broken bolt, in this case the aluminum will expand faster than the steel bolt.
If heat doesnt help, and 95% of the time it will, then cut the bolt end flat and drill it perfeclty centered with a pilot drill. Work your way up to a drill size that will leave JUST the threads of the bolt in the original threads or helicoil then pick the remaining threads out.
If it wont come out with a pair of vice grips an EZ out WILL break 99.9999999999999% of the time. You can apply a ton more pressure to the bolt with vice grips than you can to an EZ out. Broken EZ outs dont drill EZ!
Heat the area AROUND the broken bolt, in this case the aluminum will expand faster than the steel bolt.
If heat doesnt help, and 95% of the time it will, then cut the bolt end flat and drill it perfeclty centered with a pilot drill. Work your way up to a drill size that will leave JUST the threads of the bolt in the original threads or helicoil then pick the remaining threads out.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,456
Likes: 11
From: PacNW; Beacon of Conservatism in a Sea of Liberals.......AZ Snowbird; Just another Conservative
Vibration, like heat, is also your friend. I've done and seen several broken bolt extractions using just an electric engraving pencil and a squirt of penetrating oil on the sheared stud that remained in the hole. Vibes and lube...works for so many things! 
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,675
Likes: 95
From: Billings,Mt.
The fact that you are also dealing with the heli coil in there, would probably force you to dig the heli coil out after removing the bolt threads. Alot of work but with patience, it can be done. I have done it myself, more than once. This is not a 'my friend told me of a trick' thing...
Road Master
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,244
Likes: 3
From: Stamford, CT
Your vice grips must be no good or you aren't placing the stud in the best location in the jaws. This looks like it should twist right out, with enough grip. A small pipe wrench is the safet bet here. Don't cut and EZ out until you try this first!
Another note, when you re cut the threads you take more metal out of the hole. If they appear to be in good condition just use a thread chaser. it will clean them up but cut less material out.
Another note, when you re cut the threads you take more metal out of the hole. If they appear to be in good condition just use a thread chaser. it will clean them up but cut less material out.
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Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 128
Likes: 0
From: Louisville, KY
hog-doc, The first machinist I went to said he wished EZ outs would be banned from public use. Although I have personally used them several times with good luck, he said that when they fail and break its curtains for the user. There are only a hand full of tools that will even touch the steel of an easy out, one is a diamond tipped bit (expensive as hell) and a tool called an ERG (I think thats what he said), its a tool that acts like a drill bit but burns instead of cuts. He doesn't even know of anyone in my area that has one. So the lesson is don't use an easy out before going to a machinist unless your willing to scrap the material your working on. Im just hoping the second machinist that has the bike now will be able to get it out like he said he could.
Advanced
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
From: Central Florida
Wire EDM (Elox)
Here's the final remedy for a broken-off anything, such as a tap, or easy out that is stuck in the hole...as I said, it is the very last option to save the casting, and completely remove the broken tool.
The hole will not be affected at all, and will look just like it did prior to the screw-up. I have done this a number of times, but on smaller castings. We had an ELOX machine in our machine shop at work to deal with briken bolts, taps, etc).
Completely dissasemble the engine, down to the case half that has the broken off part.
Take the case to a machine shop that has wire EDM equipment. I'm not talking about a bike shop that rebuilds engines, etc., but a dedicated machine shop. You can find them online or in the yellow pages...ask for ELOX (Or Wire EDM services), describe your problem, and get a quote. It might be the easiest and cheapest way out after all other options have failed.
ELOX, (Electrical Discharge Machining) will completely burn the steel part out of the hole leaving the aluminum casting totally and completely unaffected. It doesn't take long to do, and might be the only way out of a big mess.
Many, if not most injection molds for plastic parts are machined using this method.
Good luck with it!
The hole will not be affected at all, and will look just like it did prior to the screw-up. I have done this a number of times, but on smaller castings. We had an ELOX machine in our machine shop at work to deal with briken bolts, taps, etc).
Completely dissasemble the engine, down to the case half that has the broken off part.
Take the case to a machine shop that has wire EDM equipment. I'm not talking about a bike shop that rebuilds engines, etc., but a dedicated machine shop. You can find them online or in the yellow pages...ask for ELOX (Or Wire EDM services), describe your problem, and get a quote. It might be the easiest and cheapest way out after all other options have failed.
ELOX, (Electrical Discharge Machining) will completely burn the steel part out of the hole leaving the aluminum casting totally and completely unaffected. It doesn't take long to do, and might be the only way out of a big mess.
Many, if not most injection molds for plastic parts are machined using this method.
Good luck with it!