Struggling ot understand....
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Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
From: Grand Rapids MI
Struggling ot understand....
I'm enjoying my new to me 08 Ultra. First HD after 30 yrs on the road.
However, I'm struggling to understand:
Why is it such expensive scoots have known problems such as:
- compensators (1/7th the performance than that of the SE fix???)
- my lower fairing bolts are missing, and it's a brand new 08'???
- my 1000 initial service by dealer yields the abs dashboard light on fulltime now... it was fine before they touched it)
- wheel bearing failures???
- saddle bag locks going bad??? mine is already showing signs of problems at 2200 miles.
... there are more issues as many of you know. Yet, HD doesn't just issue "announcements/declarations or recalls" and save their valued customers paying high $'s for their scoots a lot of time and hassle. WTF is the value of overall experience?
I went through much of this over the past decade when i bought Yamaha's first air cooled belt driven V-Twin "RoadStar" 1600cc 98ci from 1999. But, at least Yamaha would "eventually" fess up and issue recalls for obvious known issues. That was "respectable". And, the bike was only $12500 out the door, not 20+.
Yes, I still love my Roadie, even if her mileage is showing her age, she is a keeper for life and a reliable one at that. Yes, I'm falling in love with my Ultra, and hope to keep her for life as well. It just erks me to no end when half the dealerships will play dumb on obvious issues, worse yet, The Company, all knowing, doesn't care enough about their so called "brothers of the road/CUSTOMERS" to issue recalls.
Just saying...wtf?
However, I'm struggling to understand:
Why is it such expensive scoots have known problems such as:
- compensators (1/7th the performance than that of the SE fix???)
- my lower fairing bolts are missing, and it's a brand new 08'???
- my 1000 initial service by dealer yields the abs dashboard light on fulltime now... it was fine before they touched it)
- wheel bearing failures???
- saddle bag locks going bad??? mine is already showing signs of problems at 2200 miles.
... there are more issues as many of you know. Yet, HD doesn't just issue "announcements/declarations or recalls" and save their valued customers paying high $'s for their scoots a lot of time and hassle. WTF is the value of overall experience?
I went through much of this over the past decade when i bought Yamaha's first air cooled belt driven V-Twin "RoadStar" 1600cc 98ci from 1999. But, at least Yamaha would "eventually" fess up and issue recalls for obvious known issues. That was "respectable". And, the bike was only $12500 out the door, not 20+.
Yes, I still love my Roadie, even if her mileage is showing her age, she is a keeper for life and a reliable one at that. Yes, I'm falling in love with my Ultra, and hope to keep her for life as well. It just erks me to no end when half the dealerships will play dumb on obvious issues, worse yet, The Company, all knowing, doesn't care enough about their so called "brothers of the road/CUSTOMERS" to issue recalls.
Just saying...wtf?
Road Master
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,034
Likes: 3
From: Open Road, USA
HD seems to be to proud and cheap to issue recalls on some things. If the light is on and wasn't before, that bike would be back to the dealer pronto and they would most likely get an ear full from me. They are suppose to test ride the bike after work is completed. All the other stuff, if it was that way when you bought it, guess you are stuck with fixing it. What happened to the lower fairing bolts?
Joe
Joe
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,498
Likes: 19
From: East Alton, IL
I'm enjoying my new to me 08 Ultra. First HD after 30 yrs on the road.
However, I'm struggling to understand:
Why is it such expensive scoots have known problems such as:
- compensators (1/7th the performance than that of the SE fix???)
- my lower fairing bolts are missing, and it's a brand new 08'???
- my 1000 initial service by dealer yields the abs dashboard light on fulltime now... it was fine before they touched it)
- wheel bearing failures???
- saddle bag locks going bad??? mine is already showing signs of problems at 2200 miles.
... there are more issues as many of you know. Yet, HD doesn't just issue "announcements/declarations or recalls" and save their valued customers paying high $'s for their scoots a lot of time and hassle. WTF is the value of overall experience?
However, I'm struggling to understand:
Why is it such expensive scoots have known problems such as:
- compensators (1/7th the performance than that of the SE fix???)
- my lower fairing bolts are missing, and it's a brand new 08'???
- my 1000 initial service by dealer yields the abs dashboard light on fulltime now... it was fine before they touched it)
- wheel bearing failures???
- saddle bag locks going bad??? mine is already showing signs of problems at 2200 miles.
... there are more issues as many of you know. Yet, HD doesn't just issue "announcements/declarations or recalls" and save their valued customers paying high $'s for their scoots a lot of time and hassle. WTF is the value of overall experience?
-When my '08 compensator was out of spec they replaced it under warranty. I paid the difference to get the SE one.
-Your saddle bags won't lock properly? Mine have 29,000 miles on them and I lock them most everytime I park the bike.
-ABS light, obviously a dealer problem not worthy of a "recall" by HD.
BTW, Harley does issue recalls, like the fuel filter recall on '08s.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,602
Likes: 3
From: Southeastern Michigan
Don't agree.
For instance these ongoing production changes:
Excessive heat - fix) Cylinder shut off, redesigned exhaust.
Noisey vibrating drivetrain - fix) IDS
Compenstor knock - fix) SE compensator
5th gear whine - fix) Helical cut 5th gear
High speed wobble - fix) Redesigned frame
Excessive engine movement - fix) Redesigned isolator system
Broken fairing brackets - Fix Redesigned brackets
Just to name a few! No machine that's mass produced will be perfect. It does seem though that HD does eventually fix the problems. Some just take longer then others.
Not to say HD admits problems easily though!
For instance these ongoing production changes:
Excessive heat - fix) Cylinder shut off, redesigned exhaust.
Noisey vibrating drivetrain - fix) IDS
Compenstor knock - fix) SE compensator
5th gear whine - fix) Helical cut 5th gear
High speed wobble - fix) Redesigned frame
Excessive engine movement - fix) Redesigned isolator system
Broken fairing brackets - Fix Redesigned brackets
Just to name a few! No machine that's mass produced will be perfect. It does seem though that HD does eventually fix the problems. Some just take longer then others.
Not to say HD admits problems easily though!
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 491
Likes: 1
From: Northern VT
I think Harley does research on known issues (Front tire cupping on 09 touring bikes)...problem being is they don't make it a "Known" to everyone. Service bulletin isn't a recall. With big business I happen to think they'd like to think some of these things go away on their own. But I also believe they do things in the right way most of the time. The newer frame makes handling the bike great to me
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,802
Likes: 2
From: Salt Lake City, UT. Dushore, Pa.
Welcome to HD world, NEW 08 2200 miles? I converted to Harley's in 92 and always felt they were unreliable but since have put 97K on my 92 before top end then ran it to 152K before doing a remanufactured swap and had 175K on it when I sold it. It's still going strong and new owner loves it even with it's little quirks. So I hope you get to enjoy your ride, put some miles on. I think you'll find it's a different biker experience and if not you can always switch back.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 10,788
Likes: 2,222
From: Texas
You answered your question!..... With ALL the "problems", you still "love" the bike! Why would the MOCO change anything If you will accept things the way they are now?
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Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
From: Grand Rapids MI
Here's the scoop...
I buy to ride, I like to ride on trips, I despise being stranded or broken down. My point, I have precious limited vacation time, I spent a lot of coin for what i expect to be a quality value. Not all i mentioned has happened to my scoot as of "yet". Do i want to deal with a wheel bearing going out while i am loaded up and lady on back in the middle of nowhere or even in heavy traffic? Do you? And don't limit that example to just a bearing... try compensator or what have you.
I just read over and over the same known issues...yet, the Company is more than willing to fix it, "after" it screws your day or week or worse? And for the guy who's warranty ran out yesterday, what's it going to cost him to upgrade to the SE compensator for instance? Hmmmmmmmmm? Again, a common issue due to an obviously under engineered part.
Yes, after investing in this bike, I am "wanting" to love it. I enjoy it. It doesn't ease my mind however, knowing of all these issues as I lady and I prepare for a week on the road next week.
Sadly, if you offered me 1,000,000 in coin to make it from here in Michigan to LA in a reasonable time limit, I would use my 99' Roadie with 86,000 on her before I would take this brand new 08 Ultra.... merely because I know the Roadie has been reliable...and the Ultra, well, sounds like a crapshot whether I would make it or not, who knows.
Oh, and the story I was told on the 08 being new and never titled with only 32 miles on her when i found it at the dealer was "It was a corporate display bike".
I buy to ride, I like to ride on trips, I despise being stranded or broken down. My point, I have precious limited vacation time, I spent a lot of coin for what i expect to be a quality value. Not all i mentioned has happened to my scoot as of "yet". Do i want to deal with a wheel bearing going out while i am loaded up and lady on back in the middle of nowhere or even in heavy traffic? Do you? And don't limit that example to just a bearing... try compensator or what have you.
I just read over and over the same known issues...yet, the Company is more than willing to fix it, "after" it screws your day or week or worse? And for the guy who's warranty ran out yesterday, what's it going to cost him to upgrade to the SE compensator for instance? Hmmmmmmmmm? Again, a common issue due to an obviously under engineered part.
Yes, after investing in this bike, I am "wanting" to love it. I enjoy it. It doesn't ease my mind however, knowing of all these issues as I lady and I prepare for a week on the road next week.
Sadly, if you offered me 1,000,000 in coin to make it from here in Michigan to LA in a reasonable time limit, I would use my 99' Roadie with 86,000 on her before I would take this brand new 08 Ultra.... merely because I know the Roadie has been reliable...and the Ultra, well, sounds like a crapshot whether I would make it or not, who knows.
Oh, and the story I was told on the 08 being new and never titled with only 32 miles on her when i found it at the dealer was "It was a corporate display bike".
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,266
Likes: 7
From: Indianapolis
I'll have to go with the OP on this one, the bikes should be better than they are considering their cost. I will also have to agree that HD has made significant running changes in recent years. The point is though, that they appear to have only made those changes when enough people start bitching. I would be happier to think that HD made changes because they want their products to be better, not because they're forced to acknowledge shortcomings. It seems to me that HD only addresses a "problem" when they have used up their stock of "problem" components. The 5th gear whine was normal, no problem, until they had used up their stock of straight cut gears and then suddenly, the new heli cut 5th gear was a major selling point. The same goes for the 'new' compensator. The new frame, certainly a massive improvement, just happens to be cheaper to make and more consistent. I could go on, but the point is that unless a change is going to save HD some money, or enough people are bitching about an issue, nothing will be changed just for the sake of making it better.
No doubt this point of view will **** a lot of people off, but it's just the way I see it. I love Harleys, warts and all, but that doesn't mean I can't see their shortcomings too.
No doubt this point of view will **** a lot of people off, but it's just the way I see it. I love Harleys, warts and all, but that doesn't mean I can't see their shortcomings too.
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 609
Likes: 0
From: Grand Rapids MI
>If you will accept things the way they are now?<
I guess we need to define "accept". I'm struggling to "accept" as the title of the thread suggests.
It's a machine yes, i never owned one that didn't have issues. However, this is suppose to be the creme of the crop so to speak, the price suggests such also... the myth, the magic, it all suggests the "best". Even the best has issues, but, when the creator knows of consistent issues and doesn't hesitate to dump the issue onto its supposedly valued and cared for customers shoulders, then no, i don't get it. And no, I don't understand.
I still love my scoots regardless of flavor.... just searching for some common sense i spose.
I guess we need to define "accept". I'm struggling to "accept" as the title of the thread suggests.
It's a machine yes, i never owned one that didn't have issues. However, this is suppose to be the creme of the crop so to speak, the price suggests such also... the myth, the magic, it all suggests the "best". Even the best has issues, but, when the creator knows of consistent issues and doesn't hesitate to dump the issue onto its supposedly valued and cared for customers shoulders, then no, i don't get it. And no, I don't understand.
I still love my scoots regardless of flavor.... just searching for some common sense i spose.