Bad news
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Tourer
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 407
Likes: 2
From: Bixby Oklahoma
Bad news
Well here is where we stand. I took my 09 Ultra to a dyno guy and came away with a few decisions I need some help with
Since I went to an S & S 106 & 251 cams with 10.5/1, the compression is a little much for the stock starter clutch, already had one replaced by dealer. Options appear to be either compression releases (probably big bucks and wish the dealer had mentioned it during our initial pre purchase talks) or try the SE 254e (I think) but that would entail another dyno run as well (more pretty big bucks) or just put up with it?
Compensator - probably needs the SE upgrade - best I think I can do with waranty is buy the part at the dealer and they install and eat the labor - ok but not great, may help with the starter clutch?
Oil leaks from the air cleaner, as is a problem for more than a few of us, and I tried the mystfree set up from Doherty which wasn't the answer for me, and figured I might stick their powervents on and vent to the ground, but Tim at Doherty said not to try anything til I find out if she sumps by pulling the plug and see if I get less than 6 oz. and if so align the oil pump. Dealer wasn't very receptive saying there is a good risk of case damage taking the plug out and that his guys don't mess up the oil pump installs. I guess a fraction off could be the problem either centering or the stack set up. So now I am not so sure I want to pull that plug.
Clutch slips a little in the taller gears if I wick it to get around someone, maybe new clutch spring- looks doable for diy - any problems to look out for?
I know this is a lot of info, hope its ok forum wise to have such a laundry list
Thanks to all
Since I went to an S & S 106 & 251 cams with 10.5/1, the compression is a little much for the stock starter clutch, already had one replaced by dealer. Options appear to be either compression releases (probably big bucks and wish the dealer had mentioned it during our initial pre purchase talks) or try the SE 254e (I think) but that would entail another dyno run as well (more pretty big bucks) or just put up with it?
Compensator - probably needs the SE upgrade - best I think I can do with waranty is buy the part at the dealer and they install and eat the labor - ok but not great, may help with the starter clutch?
Oil leaks from the air cleaner, as is a problem for more than a few of us, and I tried the mystfree set up from Doherty which wasn't the answer for me, and figured I might stick their powervents on and vent to the ground, but Tim at Doherty said not to try anything til I find out if she sumps by pulling the plug and see if I get less than 6 oz. and if so align the oil pump. Dealer wasn't very receptive saying there is a good risk of case damage taking the plug out and that his guys don't mess up the oil pump installs. I guess a fraction off could be the problem either centering or the stack set up. So now I am not so sure I want to pull that plug.
Clutch slips a little in the taller gears if I wick it to get around someone, maybe new clutch spring- looks doable for diy - any problems to look out for?
I know this is a lot of info, hope its ok forum wise to have such a laundry list
Thanks to all
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,190
Likes: 5
From: Eastern Washington
From I have read, most say compression releases are a must when your ratio is 10:1 and higher. As far as compensator goes, the stock one isn't very good even for a stock motor. Some are getting the dealer to do them under warranty and just paying the price difference in the part.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,410
Likes: 8
From: Knoxville, TN
Oil leaks from the air cleaner, as is a problem for more than a few of us, and I tried the mystfree set up from Doherty which wasn't the answer for me, and figured I might stick their powervents on and vent to the ground, but Tim at Doherty said not to try anything til I find out if she sumps by pulling the plug and see if I get less than 6 oz. and if so align the oil pump.
Bottom line...that Mystfree setup doesn't work.
EVERYONES bike is sumping after the Mystfree install, according to Tim.
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,444
Likes: 1
From: SC
Yes you need some type of compression release. Either the manual or automatic. Either way your heads are going to have to come off and be replaced with some that have releases machined or machine yours. That should be enough to save your starter from then on.
With the oil something is probably wrong if the oil is excessive. Misalignment or whatever. Either way the cam chest is going to have to be pulled to inspect and possibly realign the oil pump. I would also see about another dealer or get a recommended indy to look at it if you aren't able to do the work yourself. Seems to me that something went wrong on the 106 install to do this if it weren't happening before.
You also should have done the clutch at time of build. The 106 has too much tq for the stock. You need a SE spring, barnett spring, or VPC92. The VPC will keep the stock clutch pull, the other springs will make it a little harder to pull.
Either way the assembler should have had the knowledge to know this and recommend something at that time. I don't care for some of the dealers mechanics personally. It's only a lack of experience that they tend to have. Training only teaches you so much. Time teaches the rest.
With the oil something is probably wrong if the oil is excessive. Misalignment or whatever. Either way the cam chest is going to have to be pulled to inspect and possibly realign the oil pump. I would also see about another dealer or get a recommended indy to look at it if you aren't able to do the work yourself. Seems to me that something went wrong on the 106 install to do this if it weren't happening before.
You also should have done the clutch at time of build. The 106 has too much tq for the stock. You need a SE spring, barnett spring, or VPC92. The VPC will keep the stock clutch pull, the other springs will make it a little harder to pull.
Either way the assembler should have had the knowledge to know this and recommend something at that time. I don't care for some of the dealers mechanics personally. It's only a lack of experience that they tend to have. Training only teaches you so much. Time teaches the rest.
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,213
Likes: 0
From: Cape Coral, Fl.
I agree with what has been said above and feel for ya. A little extra research before hand would have been a lot of help for you to make the right decisions. But you would expect the guy who did your work, would at least make sure you didnt miss anything in the build.
Hope you get it worked out.
Hope you get it worked out.
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Tourer
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 407
Likes: 2
From: Bixby Oklahoma
Thanks again to all, its all pretty much what I figured, some I can do some I can't. Didn't see any votes for the SE 254e cam change, or trying to pull that drain plug myself to see about the sumping. And yes I am a little pissed this related stuff to the main engine upgrade never came up, I guess I am further from being done than I thought - a couple grand further at that!
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,313
Likes: 5
i did the 259e cams was very good for 10.5.1. and compression releases are very cheap if u shop around and $100 to drill and tap is the norm. in fact i have a set of compression releases u can have they are manuel and they work i used them for one drive around the block. let me know and good luck.
Rick
Rick
Last edited by roadgliderick; Dec 14, 2010 at 10:33 AM.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 30,881
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From: King George, VA
I don't really think there is an alternative for the CRs in a high compression engine. You might consider a heavy duty starter while your assessing the short comings of your engine build.