I'll be damned!
Supporter
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,419
Likes: 90
From: Vermont
I don't claim to know everything there is to know about tuners, quite the contrary However, there is one thing I do know. My stock
96" bike ran Hot...So hot that it was uncomfortable on my leg in 50F tempertures and it had a lean stumble that I found unnerving at times. This winter I installed a Vance and Hines ProPipe, Fuel Moto intake and pre programed PCV. Very simple stage 1 mods. What I can tell you now is the lean stumble is non existant, throttle is nice and even, motor in general even at idle, is noticably smoother and the best part and primary reason I tried a tuner, the heat has been reduced DRASTICALLY!!! I don't intend to do anything else to the 96" motor. It runs perfectly now and has more grunt than any of my previous shovel or evo powered Harley's. I think Harley has a damn fine motor in that 96" despite what many here seem to say! Just my .02.
96" bike ran Hot...So hot that it was uncomfortable on my leg in 50F tempertures and it had a lean stumble that I found unnerving at times. This winter I installed a Vance and Hines ProPipe, Fuel Moto intake and pre programed PCV. Very simple stage 1 mods. What I can tell you now is the lean stumble is non existant, throttle is nice and even, motor in general even at idle, is noticably smoother and the best part and primary reason I tried a tuner, the heat has been reduced DRASTICALLY!!! I don't intend to do anything else to the 96" motor. It runs perfectly now and has more grunt than any of my previous shovel or evo powered Harley's. I think Harley has a damn fine motor in that 96" despite what many here seem to say! Just my .02.
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
From: FL
+1 here...I've done my A/C and put B&E Max Performance 2 slip-ons on my SG and all is well. I used the Vied instead of Xied so I can fine tune it a bit but haven't had a lick of issue with it since installing. Oh, I've also gutted the stock head pipe of the cat material too...still no issues.
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,993
Likes: 57
From: St. Louis, MO
I've had a new 2011 Street Glide with the 96" motor for two months now and I'm a little confused myself on what I do/don't want to do.
I put on Rush slipons and I'm pretty happy with the sound. A little louder wouldn't hurt, but I do like it the way it is too. I've done nothing else to the bike.
I gotta say that I'm very impressed with it's performance and ride!
I've owned a Dyna (bought used with stage 1), a Road King Custom (bought used with stage 1), a new Sportster Forty-Eight (bought new and I put stage 1 stuff on it), and now this 2011 Street Glide.
I gotta say that my 88" Road King with stage 1 didn't seem to run any better than the new stock 96" bike. When I went from the stock setup on the Sportster to a stage 1 upgrade (2-1 pipe, Cobra Fi2000, Big Sucker AC), I didn't notice the performance gains I expected. Not sure I noticed much at all, to be honest.
I'm just not sure the stage 1 stuff is for me on this new bike. I don't doubt the bike would run cooler, but I'm not experience all of the heat issues I read about. Sure it's hot, but blistering heat on the legs that can't be tolerated? Not on mine?
So yeah, I'm not sure if I want to get into new head pipes, power commander, and air cleaner. Maybe, but maybe not... Hm...
I put on Rush slipons and I'm pretty happy with the sound. A little louder wouldn't hurt, but I do like it the way it is too. I've done nothing else to the bike.
I gotta say that I'm very impressed with it's performance and ride!
I've owned a Dyna (bought used with stage 1), a Road King Custom (bought used with stage 1), a new Sportster Forty-Eight (bought new and I put stage 1 stuff on it), and now this 2011 Street Glide.
I gotta say that my 88" Road King with stage 1 didn't seem to run any better than the new stock 96" bike. When I went from the stock setup on the Sportster to a stage 1 upgrade (2-1 pipe, Cobra Fi2000, Big Sucker AC), I didn't notice the performance gains I expected. Not sure I noticed much at all, to be honest.
I'm just not sure the stage 1 stuff is for me on this new bike. I don't doubt the bike would run cooler, but I'm not experience all of the heat issues I read about. Sure it's hot, but blistering heat on the legs that can't be tolerated? Not on mine?
So yeah, I'm not sure if I want to get into new head pipes, power commander, and air cleaner. Maybe, but maybe not... Hm...
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,507
Likes: 23
From: Orange County Texas
Here's a little info I found, Letter from Harley Davidson:
I read this and what I take from it is Harley Davidson had to step up to the EPA requirements for the 2009 model run which of course were released in mid 2008. I'm not sure of all the changes done by Harley to meet these standards But I'm pretty sure they made changes to the timing and injector pulse to lean the motor to meet the EPA requirements. They may have also changed the cam spec's
That being said a lean motor is usually going to make more power. But, It's also going to make more heat. Cylinder temps are going to be higher and exhaust gas temp is also going to be higher. Oil temps are going to be higher and of course wear is going to be higher.
So these motors are now about as lean as they can go.
Now add a free flow exhaust and intake and the motor is even leaner.
Adding a fuel controller is going to change the timing and the amount of fuel going into the cylinder bringing temps down and giving a smoother running condition and probably more engine life.
A stage one on these bike is not going to give much of a power increase that your going to feel. What you are going to notice is a little cooler motor, the motor runs smoother and responds the way it is suppose to.
Here's a message from the Harley-Davidson headquarters about future emission mandates from the government, and how they will comply with them....bottom line...as the previous post suggests....only EFI scooters on the horizon.....
Rest Assured, We're Doing Our Part
By Jim McCaslin
President, Harley-Davidson Motor Company
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has proposed new emissions standards for highway motorcycles for the first time in more than 24 years. Is this news? Yes. Is this news that should keep you awake at night? The short answer is, no. But let me explain why, and at the same time assure you that the future of the Harley-Davidson air-cooled V-twin is secure.
First, some background. Because today's motorcycle emissions standards were adopted back in the 1970s, we weren't surprised at all when the EPA announced in November 2000 that it wanted to revisit its highway motorcycle emissions standards. We considered this a logical step in light of industry advances over the last several decades and the public's ongoing concern for cleaner air, a concern shared by us at Harley-Davidson.
As the EPA's review process unfolded, the agency sought input from members of the motorcycle industry, including Harley-Davidson, and other interested parties. EPA representatives visited our ultra-modern Product Development Center in Milwaukee to learn more about how we design and manufacture our V-Twin engines. During the EPA's inspection, we had a chance to show off our engineering facilities, talk about our concerns and explain to the EPA the importance - to us, our dealers, and most importantly, to our customers - of maintaining the look, sound and feel of Harley-Davidson motorcycles.
Having now had a chance to study the EPA's proposed emissions standards for highway motorcycles, we believe the EPA listened. Although we certainly don't agree that motorcycles are significant contributors to air pollution, the EPA's proposal promotes better air quality while balancing the interests of riders, the industry and society at large. We are prepared to meet the new standards through technologies that don't sacrifice the things you love most about your motorcycle.
In many ways, the new standards are similar to the California motorcycle emissions standards previously adopted by the California Air Resources Board. California's standards become effective in two stages, in 2004 and 2008, and Harley-Davidson has already committed to meeting them. The EPA's proposed standards are similar to California's, but they allow manufacturers two additional years to comply with each stage. They also don't include California's additional requirement that highway motorcycles be equipped with extra hardware to control evaporative emissions.
The bottom line is that Harley-Davidson plans to meet the requirements of the proposed EPA standards and still make the motorcycles true to the look, sound and feel that you know and love. So you can sleep well, knowing that we will continue doing our fair share to protect our environment, and that the air-cooled V-twin will continue to be the core of the Harley-Davidson motorcycle lineup for many years to come.
Rest Assured, We're Doing Our Part
By Jim McCaslin
President, Harley-Davidson Motor Company
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has proposed new emissions standards for highway motorcycles for the first time in more than 24 years. Is this news? Yes. Is this news that should keep you awake at night? The short answer is, no. But let me explain why, and at the same time assure you that the future of the Harley-Davidson air-cooled V-twin is secure.
First, some background. Because today's motorcycle emissions standards were adopted back in the 1970s, we weren't surprised at all when the EPA announced in November 2000 that it wanted to revisit its highway motorcycle emissions standards. We considered this a logical step in light of industry advances over the last several decades and the public's ongoing concern for cleaner air, a concern shared by us at Harley-Davidson.
As the EPA's review process unfolded, the agency sought input from members of the motorcycle industry, including Harley-Davidson, and other interested parties. EPA representatives visited our ultra-modern Product Development Center in Milwaukee to learn more about how we design and manufacture our V-Twin engines. During the EPA's inspection, we had a chance to show off our engineering facilities, talk about our concerns and explain to the EPA the importance - to us, our dealers, and most importantly, to our customers - of maintaining the look, sound and feel of Harley-Davidson motorcycles.
Having now had a chance to study the EPA's proposed emissions standards for highway motorcycles, we believe the EPA listened. Although we certainly don't agree that motorcycles are significant contributors to air pollution, the EPA's proposal promotes better air quality while balancing the interests of riders, the industry and society at large. We are prepared to meet the new standards through technologies that don't sacrifice the things you love most about your motorcycle.
In many ways, the new standards are similar to the California motorcycle emissions standards previously adopted by the California Air Resources Board. California's standards become effective in two stages, in 2004 and 2008, and Harley-Davidson has already committed to meeting them. The EPA's proposed standards are similar to California's, but they allow manufacturers two additional years to comply with each stage. They also don't include California's additional requirement that highway motorcycles be equipped with extra hardware to control evaporative emissions.
The bottom line is that Harley-Davidson plans to meet the requirements of the proposed EPA standards and still make the motorcycles true to the look, sound and feel that you know and love. So you can sleep well, knowing that we will continue doing our fair share to protect our environment, and that the air-cooled V-twin will continue to be the core of the Harley-Davidson motorcycle lineup for many years to come.
That being said a lean motor is usually going to make more power. But, It's also going to make more heat. Cylinder temps are going to be higher and exhaust gas temp is also going to be higher. Oil temps are going to be higher and of course wear is going to be higher.
So these motors are now about as lean as they can go.
Now add a free flow exhaust and intake and the motor is even leaner.
Adding a fuel controller is going to change the timing and the amount of fuel going into the cylinder bringing temps down and giving a smoother running condition and probably more engine life.
A stage one on these bike is not going to give much of a power increase that your going to feel. What you are going to notice is a little cooler motor, the motor runs smoother and responds the way it is suppose to.
Tourer
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 311
Likes: 1
From: Bardstown, Kentucky
Ive left my 2011 limited stock except for the fat shotz screamin eagle slip on exhaust that the dealer included.My first and second harley I did a lot of mods trying to get more sound and power.It seems to me that those who leave theirs stock have less problems.I never could tell that much difference in performence .We see what everyone else is doing and think thats best.I dom't think that way anymore.I say do what you want.It seems to me when its time for resale the stock bike is worth more and sells faster.The dealer is not going to give any more for the add ons.
Tourer
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 416
Likes: 1
From: Victoria BC Canada
As I understand the Power Commander (series) it is an add on unit ... and only adds fuel to the baseline ... so, if the baseline is already enriched, the PC will only have to add a little (in comparison to the stock) ....
I am not sure whether the PC maps take into consideration the baseline ... i.e., whether it is being added to stock or Stage I download ....
R/
'Chop
I am not sure whether the PC maps take into consideration the baseline ... i.e., whether it is being added to stock or Stage I download ....
R/
'Chop
AFR. An Auto tune setup will compensate for any custom ECU downloads.
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Road Master
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,164
Likes: 401
From: Port Coquitlam B.C.
I've been coming here for more then 5 years and have yet to see a post from anyone posting valid creditials that actually knows what the download does. There's a million "don't waste your money on the download because it's crap" type posts. But when you ask nobody knows what it does.
I have the basic stage 1 with the download and my bike runs great. I installed the SE air cleaner myself and then rode it to the dealership for the download. HUGE difference in throttle response. After the download the ride home was no different then the ride there. So it may or may not add fuel to compensate for the extra air, but there was no additional power gain.
Only other thing I've noticed is prior to the download I hit the rev limiter twice. Since the download I have not hit it. I ride the same so I guess it raises the rev limit.
Last thing, I can't get my bike to ping if I try. I see countless posts (dyna forum) with people complaining about pinging. Most of those people have tuners. Makes ya think?
I have the basic stage 1 with the download and my bike runs great. I installed the SE air cleaner myself and then rode it to the dealership for the download. HUGE difference in throttle response. After the download the ride home was no different then the ride there. So it may or may not add fuel to compensate for the extra air, but there was no additional power gain.
Only other thing I've noticed is prior to the download I hit the rev limiter twice. Since the download I have not hit it. I ride the same so I guess it raises the rev limit.
Last thing, I can't get my bike to ping if I try. I see countless posts (dyna forum) with people complaining about pinging. Most of those people have tuners. Makes ya think?
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,507
Likes: 23
From: Orange County Texas
I agree with the resale part of it, That why I still have my original pipe and air intake. if I trade it in I will put them back on and sell or transfer to the new bike.