this re-mapping deal ? scam ?
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Stop reading more into it or changing around what the original question was for a minute ....my whole point was , we're not changing cams, or throttle bodies, or even intakes,, I'm talking about (just an air FILTER change)...... so if a different AIR FILTER adds that much more air ,,, they are either putting on a totally restrictive piece of crap breather on stock that is choking the engine to start with ,,, or its hype ,,,,
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Way to go TUCCI, I think this guy is just stroking his EGO!!
Last edited by Ronp42; Jan 12, 2012 at 01:16 PM.
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Ok , think about this for a minute, Harley tells me "you dont have to remap if you just put on slip on mufflers ..... but if you put on an aftermarket breather then you have to remap.... "because you are getting more air into the engine" so they are basically saying that their stock filter design is so poor that it is actually restricting the amount of air your engine can get through it ....if it is "getting more" air with another breather .... now I have been building drag racing engines for over 30 years and have proven over and over again that with or without an air filter on it , no horsepower is gained because basically an engine is only capable of inhaling so many Cubic feet of air per minute through the same carb/injector ..period...if the filter design is good to start with................... so unless Harleys design is a total piece of crap and is restricting the engine.......in the first place the engine is not getting any more "air into it " with a stage 1 breather or similar breather or no breather at all............So why do they tell you that you need a remap? more money for them ???
I've been running my bikes the past 2 1/2 years with Stage 1 and xied's. Got 22K on my 2010 RK with no problem's what so ever. If you look at a map of the stock ECM, you will see the closed loop at 14.6 Expert's will tell you 14.6 is not too lean. If you look at the open loop section the FV's start at 13.8 and move into the 12's at higher throttle. Even Jamie published a dyno of the capability of the stock ECm. JMO
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From: Chicago burbs
Ok first off please excuse me cause I'm considering myself an idiot when it comes to this kinda stuff. No this is not sarcasm. I really have no clue here but I wanna ask. This is my first Harley so I'm learning as much as I can from forums like this. I've already put B&E slip ons on my ride, and was thinking to just simply grab a K&N filter to make it breath better. Other than that I have no other engine, exhaust, intake, etc, etc, mods done at all. From what I'm reading in here I can just slap in a K&N and I'll be ok right? I put aftermarket baffles and a K&N on my previous bike which was a carb'ed Honda and didn't have to worry about the air fuel mixture settings. Until I rejetted the carb. Again sorry for the stupidity. Still learning the Harley. Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Smokengun; Jan 12, 2012 at 02:01 PM.
If you want an honest answer to this question, you probably won't get it here. That's why when I read something here that interest me, I go to somebody I trust to shoot straight with me. Somebody who's not trying to sell me something or praising what they've bought or supporting a forum sponsor. I know one of the best Engine builder's and Tuner on the East Coast. He will tell you if you only do stage 1 SE A/F and Slipon's and not remove the Cat in the headpipe, YOU DO NOT NEED TO DO ANY REMAPPING OR TUNER. If you do the same and remove the cat, all you need is the Dealer remap. He's got bikes running stage 1 and cams with the Dealer Remap. There's also a well known Tuner in Canada doing the same thing.
I've been running my bikes the past 2 1/2 years with Stage 1 and xied's. Got 22K on my 2010 RK with no problem's what so ever. If you look at a map of the stock ECM, you will see the closed loop at 14.6 Expert's will tell you 14.6 is not too lean. If you look at the open loop section the FV's start at 13.8 and move into the 12's at higher throttle. Even Jamie published a dyno of the capability of the stock ECm. JMO
I've been running my bikes the past 2 1/2 years with Stage 1 and xied's. Got 22K on my 2010 RK with no problem's what so ever. If you look at a map of the stock ECM, you will see the closed loop at 14.6 Expert's will tell you 14.6 is not too lean. If you look at the open loop section the FV's start at 13.8 and move into the 12's at higher throttle. Even Jamie published a dyno of the capability of the stock ECm. JMO
If you are running XIED's you are running a typr of fuel managment, just not a tunable kind. The XIED's richen your bike up to compensate for the more air your freer (than stock) breather is allowing in.
14.6:1 is not to lean, I will agree, but it is getting borderline to being to lean, especially on an air cooled motor like we all run.
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well thank you RonP and harleytuner for down to earth , helping answers to questions and or problems that people post about ,,,,,,, thats what this board is suppose to be about ....much appreciated
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I've run bikes on the dyno that had stage ones with no fuel management at all, the wide open pull yousually isn't that bad BUT if you check the A/F in the cruising ranges, there is a strong chance, very strong, that the bike will be running leaner than 14.6:1. I've check numerous times on many differn't bikes. The stock o2 sensors can and will make small adjusments in closed loop to acheive the 14.6:1 A/F that they are set to. BUT, they are narrow band, meaning the only read a small area of A/F, if the bike is running alot leaner, or richer, than the o2 sensors can read, they don't know what corrections to tell the ECM to make to acheive the 14.6:1 that closed loop wants. This is fact. That's why if a guy puts a fuel management system on with autotune (like PC V or Thundermax) they come with new, wide band o2 sensors. They wide band sensors have the ability to read a larger scope of A/F.
If you are running XIED's you are running a typr of fuel managment, just not a tunable kind. The XIED's richen your bike up to compensate for the more air your freer (than stock) breather is allowing in.
14.6:1 is not to lean, I will agree, but it is getting borderline to being to lean, especially on an air cooled motor like we all run.
If you are running XIED's you are running a typr of fuel managment, just not a tunable kind. The XIED's richen your bike up to compensate for the more air your freer (than stock) breather is allowing in.
14.6:1 is not to lean, I will agree, but it is getting borderline to being to lean, especially on an air cooled motor like we all run.
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I've run bikes on the dyno that had stage ones with no fuel management at all, the wide open pull yousually isn't that bad BUT if you check the A/F in the cruising ranges, there is a strong chance, very strong, that the bike will be running leaner than 14.6:1. I've check numerous times on many differn't bikes. The stock o2 sensors can and will make small adjusments in closed loop to acheive the 14.6:1 A/F that they are set to. BUT, they are narrow band, meaning the only read a small area of A/F, if the bike is running alot leaner, or richer, than the o2 sensors can read, they don't know what corrections to tell the ECM to make to acheive the 14.6:1 that closed loop wants. This is fact. That's why if a guy puts a fuel management system on with autotune (like PC V or Thundermax) they come with new, wide band o2 sensors. They wide band sensors have the ability to read a larger scope of A/F.
If you are running XIED's you are running a typr of fuel managment, just not a tunable kind. The XIED's richen your bike up to compensate for the more air your freer (than stock) breather is allowing in.
14.6:1 is not to lean, I will agree, but it is getting borderline to being to lean, especially on an air cooled motor like we all run.
If you are running XIED's you are running a typr of fuel managment, just not a tunable kind. The XIED's richen your bike up to compensate for the more air your freer (than stock) breather is allowing in.
14.6:1 is not to lean, I will agree, but it is getting borderline to being to lean, especially on an air cooled motor like we all run.
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As for the "tuner" you are referring to, I can't speak for him and what he has witnessed, I have never heard of stock o2 sensors adjusting 6% +or - 2. (not that it might not be true, I juts have never heard it). But look at it this way, if it is true, an open filiment (big sucker type) air cleaner will flow more than 6% more air than a stock filter. So even that logic doesn't hold water with me.
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Aw man I am really hurt guys, I had no Idea you felt that way, WTF ever. My man blockzilla comes to the forum, touting his experience as a 30 year veteran drag motor builder, to ask if a stock air cleaner is restrictive, gets about 15 confirmations that it is, but is still not satisfied..really? How you gonna come out big facin with your credentials then ask a rookie question like that? Then when I finally pull his card and throw the bullsh!t flag, some of you want to jump on the fabrik hater bandwagon. I just said what others were thinking and you all know it. Sorry guys I didn't grow up in the everybody gets a trophy era, if your an idiot, I'm not pulling any punhces about telling you, then I'm moving on, I don't hold grudges. I agree The forum is about helping other members, and I have helped a lot of people on this forum, on many topics, Hell I just helped blockzilla validate that he's a dumb a$$. I have admitted on numerous occasions that I'm not that smart, I don't even know what a narcissist is, but what I do know, I have confidence in it; if your perception of my confidence in what I know leads you to believe that I think I am an authority on everything, then I guess my writing is getting better, if you don't like the way I say it, then put me on your ignore list, that'll teach me. Just know that chances are I got the solution to your problem, it’s what I do. Some of you need to man up, think before you speak, take your licks and move on. If you need a hug with every encounter then join the church knitting group.
The OEM filter is not restrictive, it's just another HD conspiracy and scam, is that what you really wanted to hear?
Flame on, just suited up with my fire proof britches. Gotta warn you I'm fixin to start drinkin'. God bless America's military and their 4 day weekends, party on Wayne!
The OEM filter is not restrictive, it's just another HD conspiracy and scam, is that what you really wanted to hear?
Flame on, just suited up with my fire proof britches. Gotta warn you I'm fixin to start drinkin'. God bless America's military and their 4 day weekends, party on Wayne!