Bagger wobble exposed!
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
From: Texas
I purchased a 2001 CVO Road Glide with only 19k miles on it. It is my first touring bike. Soon after purchasing it I noticed the wobble. It happened while I was in a curve, and it wasn’t a hard curve either. I was driving the speed limit which was 55MPH. I will be the first one to admit it kind of freaked me out. I had the bike checked out by the dealer and they said the bike was good to go and I was just imagining it . After reading this forum I purchased the progressive link and the problem went away.
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Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,897
From: Bedford UK
From Part your first Thread statement under "Description":
[The engine and trans are bolted together, and the swingarm is mounted directly onto the rear of the trans. Along with the rear wheel this makes up a substantial single Assembly, which is mounted into the frame at three points, of which more shortly. The swingarm axle not only allows the rear wheel to move relative to the rest of the bike, but doubles up as part of the rear mounting.]
When I read this I am trying to figure out why???
[The engine and trans are bolted together, and the swingarm is mounted directly onto the rear of the trans. Along with the rear wheel this makes up a substantial single Assembly, which is mounted into the frame at three points, of which more shortly. The swingarm axle not only allows the rear wheel to move relative to the rest of the bike, but doubles up as part of the rear mounting.]
When I read this I am trying to figure out why???
My first guess is that the Engineers did the best they could to Avoid lengthening the frame or wheel base and did not have room to mount the rear swing arm directly to the frame.
So... they took the Risk with rider safety.
So... they took the Risk with rider safety.
My Common sense says mount swing arms, steering and wheels to solid metal. The engine and transmission mounted by solid rubber makes sense as long as nothing else _Suspension, Steering) is mounted to those two pieces.
4 wheel vehicles have their axles (housing or mounts) mounted to frame somewhere and usually Welded, Wheels are mounted to axles etc... no rubber between wheel and frame on auto's, AND they have 4 corners.
Motorcycles with one wheel front and rear should Never have Rubber anywhere between the Wheel - Steering - or Swing Arm!!
Whatever the Engineers reasons they have put Riders at High Risk for Accident. Two wheels have their own risk for riding as it is.
MHO
Whatever the Engineers reasons they have put Riders at High Risk for Accident. Two wheels have their own risk for riding as it is.
MHO
I hope that helps improve things!
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,205
Likes: 18
From: SE Michigan
One quick way to tell if you have a "bagger wobble" potential is to wiggle the handlebars a bit at about 45-50 mph. If only the front fork moves and the rest of the bike feels like "one" you don't have an issue. If you can feel the rear end "waggle" and the front wheel stay stationary like I could on my old '91 Electra Glide you have to do something to fix it. Either the slap on stabilizer or the integral stiffer isolator mounts and inner bushings like the Glide Pro set up. I recently traded up to a 2007 Road King Police and notice that there is no frame flex at all and I think it's totally stock.
GR Brown is "Da Man" on this topic btw. Good to see you still kickin' GR!!!! Have a wonderful riding season!! I know I plan to on my "new" Road King for sure!!! :-)
GR Brown is "Da Man" on this topic btw. Good to see you still kickin' GR!!!! Have a wonderful riding season!! I know I plan to on my "new" Road King for sure!!! :-)
Last edited by Tactical111; May 3, 2014 at 05:11 PM.
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 290
Likes: 21
From: Portland Oregon
The engine is rubber mounted to isolate vibration. The Assembly maintains alignment between the output sprocket (later pulley) and rear wheel ditto. If the rear wheel isn't directly attached to the transmission casing, as it is, a very different and more complicated drive arrangement would be necessary, with the inevitable weight and space implications. Shaft drive would be the only solution I can imagine that would work.
No risk at all! The concept is fundamentally sound, only compromised by the MoCo not implementing it fully. Norton had previously proved the principle that Harley used later, as they did exactly the same, albeit using a different rubber-mount system (which had it's flaws!).
Few vehicles have those parts mounted to solid metal, they are almost entirely rubber mounted in some way. We humans, and our machines, would not survive the experience if the engine were not isolated. Other vehicles routinely have pretty well everything rubber mounted, for the same reason, to protect us sensitive humans from vibration and shock!
They also have rubber-mounted suspension and steering components plus flexible drive couplings from the engine to the wheels. RWD cars have a drive shaft with universal joints at both ends, so the engine can shake around as it wants, as can the rear differential. FWD vehicles have a similar arrangement to the front driven wheels, plus the complication of providing steering, via constant velocity joints.
Not so! The original patent describes a design which is impeccable. Every Buell bike ever built and every rubber-mounted Sportster uses the proper system (I have examples of both) and they are fine, brilliant to ride. Our Touring bikes would also be fine if they came from the factory with that rear stabilizer. The later bikes (2009-on) would be better if they used the same system.
I hope that helps improve things!
No risk at all! The concept is fundamentally sound, only compromised by the MoCo not implementing it fully. Norton had previously proved the principle that Harley used later, as they did exactly the same, albeit using a different rubber-mount system (which had it's flaws!).
Few vehicles have those parts mounted to solid metal, they are almost entirely rubber mounted in some way. We humans, and our machines, would not survive the experience if the engine were not isolated. Other vehicles routinely have pretty well everything rubber mounted, for the same reason, to protect us sensitive humans from vibration and shock!
They also have rubber-mounted suspension and steering components plus flexible drive couplings from the engine to the wheels. RWD cars have a drive shaft with universal joints at both ends, so the engine can shake around as it wants, as can the rear differential. FWD vehicles have a similar arrangement to the front driven wheels, plus the complication of providing steering, via constant velocity joints.
Not so! The original patent describes a design which is impeccable. Every Buell bike ever built and every rubber-mounted Sportster uses the proper system (I have examples of both) and they are fine, brilliant to ride. Our Touring bikes would also be fine if they came from the factory with that rear stabilizer. The later bikes (2009-on) would be better if they used the same system.
I hope that helps improve things!
Would my bike be enhanced in the handling area with one of these Stabilizers? If so what brand ? Thanks, Bo
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Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,897
From: Bedford UK
grbrown - I just looked all under my 2014 Dyna Wide Glide and found that my swing arm is mounted the same way... Shocked! One mount, only in the middle of the swing arm/transmission, the stress on the transmission in this mount area must be tremendous. The Softails are mounted to the frame on both sides (outside sides) this seems like a great way to mount the swing arm and Strong! Also, the engine and transmissine case are Aluminum, I guess HD has been doing this with the Dyna series for quite some time (how long exactly?) but, I have to say this set up does not seem like a strong enough way to mount the swing arms on these bikes. I have never had a Dyna before, just Softails and Sportsters.
Would my bike be enhanced in the handling area with one of these Stabilizers? If so what brand ? Thanks, Bo
Would my bike be enhanced in the handling area with one of these Stabilizers? If so what brand ? Thanks, Bo
Road Warrior
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,693
Likes: 17
From: Ontario Canada
I was confused as well. Why did he want to address a bunch of chaps. Next he will be talking to shirts. Man those Brits are weird people.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 127
From: Coastal Carolina
Update--Turned over 30,000 miles yesterday and (DAMN!) still no wobble under every conceivable riding condition you can imagine. That's two Harleys with lots of miles and no wobble. Maybe I am doing something wrong (by maintaining my bike and tires properly and knowing how to ride).....
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Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Bedford UK
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Joined: Jan 2010
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From: earth
I don't know why you should be shocked! Harley has been mounting the swingarm on the transmission casing since 1980 and other brands have since before that. There is absolutely nothing wrong in any way. Your Dyna has a different rubber mounting system to the Touring models and they can suffer from a bit of 'wobble'. If you use one of the aftermarket brands of front and rear stabilizer kits (I used True-Track on my Dyna), you will find steering and handling are significantly improved.
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Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 45,429
Likes: 2,897
From: Bedford UK
Come off it Jason, you have a better understanding of our bikes and the way they work than most! The Dyna range is admittedly less than perfect, but as I've already stated, installing a stabilizer kit will improve them. Mounting the engine or swingarm directly to the frame will not work. Period!