Feet down at stop signs
Cruiser
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 113
Likes: 2
From: Lynwood ,IL
Look up "motorcycle landing gear" on you tube
I guess all these people will get a ticket for not putting there feet down.
And if you got a ticket it would not hold up in court if it was truly for not putting your foot down. I would like to see what he actually wrote on it. If the cop admits all forward motion had ceased the judge would have no choice but to throw it out, as that is all the law requires. But you better be ready to show the judge you can balance you bike with no forward movement . Other wise you did do a California stop at least in the cops opinion and the cop thinks he's justified. Becomes his word against yours.
I think the point here would be people are saying you have to put 2 feet down or get a ticket and that is totally not true. Not in any state. If a cop thinks that he's wrong. But you were right not to argue with him. But his supervisor might. And I would make that call.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 723
Likes: 62
From: Cape Cod, Ma.
I got pulled over in Massachusetts for not putting my feet down at a stop sign. The officer called it a "California Stop". I tried to joke with him saying I lived in California for 8 years and I never heard it called that. He was NOT amused!
He explained to me that even though I stopped moving forward, not putting my feet down is technically not a "full" stop. He did let me go with a warning. I wasn't about to dispute his judgement at that point.
He explained to me that even though I stopped moving forward, not putting my feet down is technically not a "full" stop. He did let me go with a warning. I wasn't about to dispute his judgement at that point.
Neil
RDMC
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 941
Likes: 9
From: Denver, CO
AGAIN, I want to remind/CAUTION YOU (others) Sir(s)/Madam(s), If/When the CAMERA determines YOUR status, and sends YOU a ticket, YOU WILL PAY (or else YOU AUTOMATICALLY LOO$E YOUR LICEN$E while YOU try to appeal/apply your due proce$$ right$)... Call this discussion stupid, inappropriate, "...ridiculous..." whatever... YOU/Et al have missed the point... I may agree with YOU... There ARE IN FACT many legitimate different degrees/definitions/(due-process)-discussions of 'stopping'... BUT, YOU will NOT be allowed due process... Those rights are GONE... These discussions and YOUR circumstances will be MOOT... Welcome to the new democratic society (WHO [YOU???] voted for this???!!!)... NOT ME...
The intersection stop camera scenario continues to 'educate' me... I suggest; 1. Keep cameras out of your Town/County/State... 2. Always come to a full stop... 3. If you know there is a stop camera watching do NOT make a right-on-red, (DO NOT PROCEED, WAIT FOR THE GREEN LIGHT) even after a full/both feet down stop, because if the camera makes a decision that you did not meet the stop-criteria and issues a ticket, your argument/due process rights/ALL practicality is moot and the cost in time/money/effort to 'educate/fight the system'/try to exercise due process rights is enormous/inordinate/doomed and only serves to perpetuate the new democratic $y$tem... 4. NOTE: When/if you are traveling/touring/vacationing/working out-of-State/away from home and get a camera ticket it will be mailed to your home address (without your knowledge), looking like advertisement/junk-mail, perhaps remaining there until you get back (if not discarded by a neighbor/accidently) and by that time you will have racked-up more (automatic) penaltie$... If you are not there to receive a subsequent registered letter of notification, again, tough luck, and MORE automatic (due-proce$$-LE$$) irrever$ible penaltie$/license revocation... 5. The CAMERA will decide if YOU stopped and YOUR understanding/experience/'ALL practical application/intent of the law' will change, and not necessarily for the better... 6. Intersection cameras are bad for small-business because people will avoid going into Town/areas where they exist... 7. Camera angles/edits can work against you... 8. Laws/interpretations may differ from Town/County/State/Et al and the 'confusion' is not in your favor... 9. Many/most law enforcement agencies are highly staffed and well equipped requiring lots of $$$ to support it and these cameras (not cheap themselves) are a means to get YOUR money in the most efficient/effective prosecutorial way possible...
The intersection stop camera scenario continues to 'educate' me... I suggest; 1. Keep cameras out of your Town/County/State... 2. Always come to a full stop... 3. If you know there is a stop camera watching do NOT make a right-on-red, (DO NOT PROCEED, WAIT FOR THE GREEN LIGHT) even after a full/both feet down stop, because if the camera makes a decision that you did not meet the stop-criteria and issues a ticket, your argument/due process rights/ALL practicality is moot and the cost in time/money/effort to 'educate/fight the system'/try to exercise due process rights is enormous/inordinate/doomed and only serves to perpetuate the new democratic $y$tem... 4. NOTE: When/if you are traveling/touring/vacationing/working out-of-State/away from home and get a camera ticket it will be mailed to your home address (without your knowledge), looking like advertisement/junk-mail, perhaps remaining there until you get back (if not discarded by a neighbor/accidently) and by that time you will have racked-up more (automatic) penaltie$... If you are not there to receive a subsequent registered letter of notification, again, tough luck, and MORE automatic (due-proce$$-LE$$) irrever$ible penaltie$/license revocation... 5. The CAMERA will decide if YOU stopped and YOUR understanding/experience/'ALL practical application/intent of the law' will change, and not necessarily for the better... 6. Intersection cameras are bad for small-business because people will avoid going into Town/areas where they exist... 7. Camera angles/edits can work against you... 8. Laws/interpretations may differ from Town/County/State/Et al and the 'confusion' is not in your favor... 9. Many/most law enforcement agencies are highly staffed and well equipped requiring lots of $$$ to support it and these cameras (not cheap themselves) are a means to get YOUR money in the most efficient/effective prosecutorial way possible...
Many courts have ruled that your due process rights ARE still important when it comes to traffic cameras and that any ticket that is not served to you in person is unenforceable. The issuing department will send you millions of notices threatening you and send you to collections but many of them can't actually collect nor ding your credit.
Also, if the ticket was issued when you were out-of-state, no state can suspend your license unless they are the issuing state. You'll never have any issues unless you drive through that state again.
So, don't pay it, set up a court date if you don't mind traveling to that state to fight it, or contact the ACLU and file a complaint with them and have them pursue the issue (they may also be able to bring a case due to a $350 ticket being unjust and unreasonable punishment that does not fit the crime...not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign is not the same as blowing through a stop sign). But you can only do this is you were truly in the right and the cameras were at fault.
Also, please stop blaming the installation of traffic citation cameras on the current elected officials. In most places, the elected officials have nothing to do with the decision to install the cameras.
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 457
Likes: 73
From: New Hampshire
I certainly would have fought it had he given me a ticket. My wife was on the back and she even thought he was joking. I wasn't hot-******* or riding crazy. I was literally coasting to the stop sign at the end of my street. And like many of you, I usually cover the brake with my right foot and come to a complete stop without having to put my feet down. At least long enough to check traffic in both directions.
If there's one thing I've learned over the years...NEVER argue with the citing officer, no matter how frivolous or silly you may think the reason for getting pulled over is. That's why I even tried lightening the situation by joking with him about the "California Stop"
If there's one thing I've learned over the years...NEVER argue with the citing officer, no matter how frivolous or silly you may think the reason for getting pulled over is. That's why I even tried lightening the situation by joking with him about the "California Stop"
Banned
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 3
From: a small country between TX and AZ
Many courts have ruled that your due process rights ARE still important when it comes to traffic cameras and that any ticket that is not served to you in person is unenforceable. The issuing department will send you millions of notices threatening you and send you to collections but many of them can't actually collect nor ding your credit.
Also, if the ticket was issued when you were out-of-state, no state can suspend your license unless they are the issuing state. You'll never have any issues unless you drive through that state again.
So, don't pay it, set up a court date if you don't mind traveling to that state to fight it, or contact the ACLU and file a complaint with them and have them pursue the issue (they may also be able to bring a case due to a $350 ticket being unjust and unreasonable punishment that does not fit the crime...not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign is not the same as blowing through a stop sign). But you can only do this is you were truly in the right and the cameras were at fault.
Also, please stop blaming the installation of traffic citation cameras on the current elected officials. In most places, the elected officials have nothing to do with the decision to install the cameras.
Also, if the ticket was issued when you were out-of-state, no state can suspend your license unless they are the issuing state. You'll never have any issues unless you drive through that state again.
So, don't pay it, set up a court date if you don't mind traveling to that state to fight it, or contact the ACLU and file a complaint with them and have them pursue the issue (they may also be able to bring a case due to a $350 ticket being unjust and unreasonable punishment that does not fit the crime...not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign is not the same as blowing through a stop sign). But you can only do this is you were truly in the right and the cameras were at fault.
Also, please stop blaming the installation of traffic citation cameras on the current elected officials. In most places, the elected officials have nothing to do with the decision to install the cameras.
Bullshit.
Cruiser
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 113
Likes: 2
From: Lynwood ,IL
Neil you are spot on I would tear this cop a new one in court....And I speak from past experience, the Judge asked me if I was studying to be a lawyer, I said no he said "You should" LOL Case dismissed.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 612
Likes: 3
From: Massachusetts, west side
0 foot stop at and empty intersection. (look Ma, no feet)
1 foot at busy intersection.
2 feet for an occupied intersection. (to prevent a longer stop by LEO.)
1 foot at busy intersection.
2 feet for an occupied intersection. (to prevent a longer stop by LEO.)
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Road Master
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 757
Likes: 4
Where I live the law states the wheels of the motor vehicle must stop. That's it! No mention of feet down, up or sideways. I'm not going to research stop sign law for every state I visit. That's not reasonable and if I get a ticket so be it. I can't see a normal cop giving a ticket for a complete stop regardless of the law and how it's written. A bad attitude can always get you one though so keep that in your mind
Cruiser
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 113
Likes: 2
From: Lynwood ,IL