Esp...any trouble with stg 1?
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Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 150
Likes: 13
From: Fl
Esp...any trouble with stg 1?
2012 FLHX... Warranty runs out in Aug. and I'm seriously considering the extended service plan. Only thing not stock on the bike is pipes, air cleaner and Power Vision. The Power Vision, is,of course easily removed (I run it mounted on the bars) and the stage 1 Harley download is easily re-flashed to the ECM. My dealer says no problem with ESP with my stg.1 but they say some dealers may give me grief. 15000 miles and my only warranty issue has been a voltage regulator. Reading this forum makes me feel like something is going to grenade at any moment. I understand that all those without problems don't do a lot of posting, but... My question is: Generally, have those with ESP and a stage 1 had a decent experience or has it been a nightmare. And yes, I have searched and read many other posts, just wanted recent opinions. Thanks.
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 14,744
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From: Phoenix '53, '88, '09 Big Twins
I think that's your best answer.
the big problem for a warranty company is this:
the owner ( you) has changed or allowed to be changed the air fuel mixture, ignition timing and other functions.
Some of these changes may be beyond design limits ( ex: rev limit or AFR ).
So can we really ask for a warranty for the stuff we have done to our bikes -ethically
so if you have a problem and you take it to a dealer for repairs- you are asking the dealer to misrepresent to the warranty servicing company.
or the dealer documents the changes and passes the info on to the servicing company.
The ESP is usually a contract with a 3rd party, not H-D.
The 3rd party may have access to H-D's records of services etc to your bike ( logging mods into the database has been noted since the 80's)
so you can buy the contract and hope you squeak it through.
or just hang onto your cash and take on responsibility if something breaks. In which case maybe you have fixed by an Indy for 1/2 the book price of a Dealer.
in the case of a Factory Warranty ( 2 years ), the dealer may want to sell you stuff for "off road/ closed course" which violates the Factory Warranty. If they say no worries, we'll cover it- get that in writing.
Your Dealer is not H-D, H-D is not your dealer. They are separate corporate entities. The Dealer cannot modify the terms of the Factory Warranty- they can offer a their own promise...get it in writing.
here's a quote from a pal who is Sales Mgr at a large dealer;
" Putting on pipes and air cleaners is a grey area. We've read the fine print on the warranty and it says " installing certain exhaust systems MAY void your warranty", but it doesn't tell you which ones! Go down to your local HD dealer and ask them a bunch of questions. I tell my customers, if you bought the bike here and we installed the parts, we will stand behind your warranty. I guess it all depends on who you talk to! "
Mike
the big problem for a warranty company is this:
the owner ( you) has changed or allowed to be changed the air fuel mixture, ignition timing and other functions.
Some of these changes may be beyond design limits ( ex: rev limit or AFR ).
So can we really ask for a warranty for the stuff we have done to our bikes -ethically
so if you have a problem and you take it to a dealer for repairs- you are asking the dealer to misrepresent to the warranty servicing company.
or the dealer documents the changes and passes the info on to the servicing company.
The ESP is usually a contract with a 3rd party, not H-D.
The 3rd party may have access to H-D's records of services etc to your bike ( logging mods into the database has been noted since the 80's)
so you can buy the contract and hope you squeak it through.
or just hang onto your cash and take on responsibility if something breaks. In which case maybe you have fixed by an Indy for 1/2 the book price of a Dealer.
in the case of a Factory Warranty ( 2 years ), the dealer may want to sell you stuff for "off road/ closed course" which violates the Factory Warranty. If they say no worries, we'll cover it- get that in writing.
Your Dealer is not H-D, H-D is not your dealer. They are separate corporate entities. The Dealer cannot modify the terms of the Factory Warranty- they can offer a their own promise...get it in writing.
here's a quote from a pal who is Sales Mgr at a large dealer;
" Putting on pipes and air cleaners is a grey area. We've read the fine print on the warranty and it says " installing certain exhaust systems MAY void your warranty", but it doesn't tell you which ones! Go down to your local HD dealer and ask them a bunch of questions. I tell my customers, if you bought the bike here and we installed the parts, we will stand behind your warranty. I guess it all depends on who you talk to! "
Mike
Last edited by mkguitar; May 17, 2014 at 10:56 AM.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 239
Likes: 3
From: Connecticut
From my HD Service managers mouth "We have never turned anyone away for a warranty issue after doing stage 1...whether you did or we did it. if the issue has something to do with your stage 1 addition, we might ask that you put everything back on"
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 972
Likes: 633
From: Ohio
My dealer says the same thing... but what happens when you are 1000 miles from home and are at the mercy of a dealership you don't have a relationship with...
Tourer
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 498
Likes: 28
From: Iowa
When I bought my 2014 Ultra Limited last fall I toyed around with the idea of buying the Screamin' Eagle 110 Cubic Inch Stage I Kit for EFI Models. If had that hot kit installed at the time of purchase it would have the same warranty as the bike itself. And those were the words of the Harley dealer. That kit includes a stage one air. So I dont know how they can deny warranty on just a stage one when they will warrant a complete hot kit that includes a stage one air.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,023
Likes: 6
From: New Jersey
Two thoughts, based upon the OP's comments:
1) ESP's are a waste of money.
2) Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
Now, let the revelry begin!
1) ESP's are a waste of money.
2) Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
Now, let the revelry begin!
Last edited by FenderGuy53; May 17, 2014 at 09:08 AM.
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Seasoned HDF Member
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From: anacoco, la
on the cost savings of esp vs non-esp, that is a question that you'll have to answer for yourself. if you ride a lot, then chances are it will pay off for you. if you do 5000 miles per year, then probably not. they are serious money makers for the company, they would not be selling them if they weren't, but you will often hear of the people that really made out. i heard of one guy who's on his 3rd engine. i'd say he came out well ahead.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,023
Likes: 6
From: New Jersey
Exactly! AND, the burden of proof shifts to the customer!
Last edited by FenderGuy53; May 17, 2014 at 09:39 AM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,585
Likes: 673
From: Rolla
When I bought my 2014 Ultra Limited last fall I toyed around with the idea of buying the Screamin' Eagle 110 Cubic Inch Stage I Kit for EFI Models. If had that hot kit installed at the time of purchase it would have the same warranty as the bike itself. And those were the words of the Harley dealer. That kit includes a stage one air. So I dont know how they can deny warranty on just a stage one when they will warrant a complete hot kit that includes a stage one air.
Even thought it is sold through HD dealers, you can shop around and get the best price.
only one thought applies. the mm warranty act does not apply when you are talking about the esp. it is not a warranty, and as such the company that underwrites the policy can make whatever exclusions they want to. if they want to deny coverage on your radio because you added a stage 1, they can do so, legally, and there isn't anything that you can really do about it. now, there are some provisions in the mm that reference with esp's, but not so much as to how they are applied.
If you use aftermarket spark plugs, fuel filter, oil, oil filter, or other similar items meeting the factory specs and have issues that is where Magnuson-Moss comes into play.
Once you go messing with any computer tuning, or higher horsepower engine mods, Magnuson-Moss will not help you much.
And the only burden of proof HD has to show, is that you changed and/or added parts outside of the factory recommended specs.
Now as mentioned, HD does offer factory coverage on some of their engine upgrades when purchased and installed by the dealer at the time the bike is purchased.
But take that same bike down to your local Indy and have that same engine work done and your engine grenades, HD may or may not cover the damage (Magnuson-Moss or not).
Last edited by RollaMo; May 17, 2014 at 10:39 AM.