(On the fence) Stage 2 Torque kit for 2018 slim
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,851
Likes: 420
From: Santa Fe NM
Thank you for your help on this. During my last service I mentioned to my local dealer that I wanted to get the stage 2 installed within the 60 days of buying the bike so it would be covered under the factory 2 year warranty. They told me not to worry, no need to rush to enjoy the bike and work that I have just done to it. That if I decide to do the stage 2 that they would stand behind their work and always take care of it!! I was very happy to hear it and to be honest not surprised (really good people) when I mentioned that to my buddy he told me that Harley Corp would ask to see the computer readout of the bike when they put in for warranty work. showing the settings that has been entered per my bike (showing the V&H pipes) and voiding the warranty. If the dealer has a say then they would most certainly stand my their word and product, Im sure of that! Thank you for sharing your experiences, it definitely made me feel more confident about the warranty. After speaking with my buddy It was always in the back of my mind about opening the motor for performance work and possibly having a problem in the future and Harley not warranty it for something silly as pipes!! Thanks again Bowhunter!!
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,250
Likes: 3,129
From: Texas
On tuners, there is no gray area and no maybe: if you use an aftermarket tuner on a 2017+ Harley, Harley WILL void your warranty and there is nothing the dealer can say about it. Harley is under federal court order to do so.
As for pipes, etc., If they are EPA-compliant you should have no warranty concerns at all (unless the pipe itself causes a failure of an otherwise warrantied part). If your pipes defeat the emissions control system, Harley can and may void your warranty for that.
As for the dealer: it's up to them if they choose to lie to (and therefore defraud) Harley on the customer's behalf. Some will, some won't take that risk. So that's where the gray area comes in.
As for the PowerVision, yeah, you may have gotten away with that on a pre-2017 bike, I mean, everybody did, it was pretty much standard procedure to use a tuner on your bike (I used an FP3 on my 2015 for example). But the rules changed for 2017 and later. Now, if you tune a 2017+ with an aftermarket tuner, your powertrain warranty is automatically and irrevocably voided, no ifs/and/buts about it. No way in hell will an aftermarket tuner touch my 2018 before the 2-year warranty expires (and I will probably have it properly Dyno tuned with a TTS or PowerVision the day the warranty expires).
As for pipes, etc., If they are EPA-compliant you should have no warranty concerns at all (unless the pipe itself causes a failure of an otherwise warrantied part). If your pipes defeat the emissions control system, Harley can and may void your warranty for that.
As for the dealer: it's up to them if they choose to lie to (and therefore defraud) Harley on the customer's behalf. Some will, some won't take that risk. So that's where the gray area comes in.
As for the PowerVision, yeah, you may have gotten away with that on a pre-2017 bike, I mean, everybody did, it was pretty much standard procedure to use a tuner on your bike (I used an FP3 on my 2015 for example). But the rules changed for 2017 and later. Now, if you tune a 2017+ with an aftermarket tuner, your powertrain warranty is automatically and irrevocably voided, no ifs/and/buts about it. No way in hell will an aftermarket tuner touch my 2018 before the 2-year warranty expires (and I will probably have it properly Dyno tuned with a TTS or PowerVision the day the warranty expires).
Last edited by FatBob2018; Nov 6, 2018 at 12:29 PM.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 5,649
Likes: 430
From: MASS_hole
If they give you grief on warranty, let them know you’re willing to go to court to fight them on it.
They can not deny covarage based on parts. Especially if they are nit the issue. Simply ask how they are an issue. Then call them out onnit if they claim it does when you know it aint true
They can not deny covarage based on parts. Especially if they are nit the issue. Simply ask how they are an issue. Then call them out onnit if they claim it does when you know it aint true
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 4,250
Likes: 3,129
From: Texas
Keep it EPA-compliant and you're right, you will be fine. Take it out of compliance, or put on a trailer hitch or sidecar or something else that puts the bike outside it's design parameters and you'll get your warranty voided lickety split.
Last edited by FatBob2018; Nov 6, 2018 at 11:23 PM.
Tourer
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 250
Likes: 54
From: Arlington, TX
I'm fairly light at 152 lbs and my sweet little wife has her own bike so I don't carry a passenger. We do take cross country trips so a little weight is added from items in the saddlebags and a small top bag. Given my situation, I find the power band on my 114 Stage One with Vance and Hines Slip On mufflers, a Harley Heavy Breather, and a Harley Street Tuner, to be just right. There is plenty of acceleration to 3500 RPM and above, and enough grunt to pick up speed without incessant downshifting. Everyone is different, but I like the stock power band just where it is.
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 617
Likes: 369
From: Long Island New York
Ok, I decided to pull the trigger and called my local HD dealer today and setup my stage 2 appointment. They put me in for the 27th of this month! Now I just need to decided if Im going to blackout the rest of the motor or keep a little chrome. I aleady blacked out the primary and Im kinda happy with the way it looks now. The kit comes with either black or chrome adjustable pushrods. I figured if they have the motor apart maybe it would be a good time to replace the upper and lower rocker box covers in black with the tappet covers, cam cover and transmission covers in black.... that would look pretty good I think. I just have to decide by tomorrow because th are ordering the parts.
Hey Mac-427, yes I understand what you are saying and definitely could appreciate that! The bike definitely has a good amount of power now, especially after the work that has been done...............but it could always use a little more
Hey Mac-427, yes I understand what you are saying and definitely could appreciate that! The bike definitely has a good amount of power now, especially after the work that has been done...............but it could always use a little more
Last edited by LIMike; Nov 7, 2018 at 06:13 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,851
Likes: 420
From: Santa Fe NM
On tuners, there is no gray area and no maybe: if you use an aftermarket tuner on a 2017+ Harley, Harley WILL void your warranty and there is nothing the dealer can say about it. Harley is under federal court order to do so.
As for pipes, etc., If they are EPA-compliant you should have no warranty concerns at all (unless the pipe itself causes a failure of an otherwise warrantied part). If your pipes defeat the emissions control system, Harley can and may void your warranty for that.
As for the dealer: it's up to them if they choose to lie to (and therefore defraud) Harley on the customer's behalf. Some will, some won't take that risk. So that's where the gray area comes in.
As for the PowerVision, yeah, you may have gotten away with that on a pre-2017 bike, I mean, everybody did, it was pretty much standard procedure to use a tuner on your bike (I used an FP3 on my 2015 for example). But the rules changed for 2017 and later. Now, if you tune a 2017+ with an aftermarket tuner, your powertrain warranty is automatically and irrevocably voided, no ifs/and/buts about it. No way in hell will an aftermarket tuner touch my 2018 before the 2-year warranty expires (and I will probably have it properly Dyno tuned with a TTS or PowerVision the day the warranty expires).
As for pipes, etc., If they are EPA-compliant you should have no warranty concerns at all (unless the pipe itself causes a failure of an otherwise warrantied part). If your pipes defeat the emissions control system, Harley can and may void your warranty for that.
As for the dealer: it's up to them if they choose to lie to (and therefore defraud) Harley on the customer's behalf. Some will, some won't take that risk. So that's where the gray area comes in.
As for the PowerVision, yeah, you may have gotten away with that on a pre-2017 bike, I mean, everybody did, it was pretty much standard procedure to use a tuner on your bike (I used an FP3 on my 2015 for example). But the rules changed for 2017 and later. Now, if you tune a 2017+ with an aftermarket tuner, your powertrain warranty is automatically and irrevocably voided, no ifs/and/buts about it. No way in hell will an aftermarket tuner touch my 2018 before the 2-year warranty expires (and I will probably have it properly Dyno tuned with a TTS or PowerVision the day the warranty expires).
Also with the power Vision I'm able to save the stock tune. So if anything goes wrong, I'll be putting the stock pipes back on and going back to the stock tune before it goes in for warranty work. My dealer said they have my back and will stand by me if needed. I don't see that as defrauding HD as much as it is totally supporting their customers, which is rare these days. So I guess the gray area still exists even with 2018's and up.
HD makes a ton of money on their bikes and other things already so for them to force people to either use their parts or suffer with losing your warranty is BS and the man trying to get more money out of our pockets than we already spent.
I think the dealers that stand by their customers and help to maintain your warranty with mods like this is how it should be. I will be using the Power Vision and my dealer has my back so I'm comfortable with going for it now. Also will continue to support my dealer because they have always had my back and have taken care of me well.
LIMike,
Any updates on your stage 2 yet? Curious to know how you like it so far?
Last edited by Bowhunter8607; Nov 29, 2018 at 11:49 AM.
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Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 617
Likes: 369
From: Long Island New York
Just to throw out an update to this post reaponse. I spoke with my dealer this weekend and asked the shop manager about using my Power Vision on my bike. He stated as long as they don't tune it on their computer with my tuner there is nothing that will indicate the bike had an aftermarket tuner hooked up.
Also with the power Vision I'm able to save the stock tune. So if anything goes wrong, I'll be putting the stock pipes back on and going back to the stock tune before it goes in for warranty work. My dealer said they have my back and will stand by me if needed. I don't see that as defrauding HD as much as it is totally supporting their customers, which is rare these days. So I guess the gray area still exists even with 2018's and up.
HD makes a ton of money on their bikes and other things already so for them to force people to either use their parts or suffer with losing your warranty is BS and the man trying to get more money out of our pockets than we already spent.
I think the dealers that stand by their customers and help to maintain your warranty with mods like this is how it should be. I will be using the Power Vision and my dealer has my back so I'm comfortable with going for it now. Also will continue to support my dealer because they have always had my back and have taken care of me well.
LIMike,
Any updates on your stage 2 yet? Curious to know how you like it so far?
Also with the power Vision I'm able to save the stock tune. So if anything goes wrong, I'll be putting the stock pipes back on and going back to the stock tune before it goes in for warranty work. My dealer said they have my back and will stand by me if needed. I don't see that as defrauding HD as much as it is totally supporting their customers, which is rare these days. So I guess the gray area still exists even with 2018's and up.
HD makes a ton of money on their bikes and other things already so for them to force people to either use their parts or suffer with losing your warranty is BS and the man trying to get more money out of our pockets than we already spent.
I think the dealers that stand by their customers and help to maintain your warranty with mods like this is how it should be. I will be using the Power Vision and my dealer has my back so I'm comfortable with going for it now. Also will continue to support my dealer because they have always had my back and have taken care of me well.
LIMike,
Any updates on your stage 2 yet? Curious to know how you like it so far?
the rear progressive shock that was going to be installed with the 12in hell bent bars and stage 2 kit was on back order till the beginning of December. It held up the job a little. My local shop just contacted me 2 days ago saying the shock was shipped. Hopefully they will do the job next week?
I went to another local shop a week or so ago that does Dyno tuning. They told me that they couldnt tune my bike with the screaming eagle smart tune installed. They said pretty much the same thing that your shop told you. That I could install a different tuner and have it tuned on the dyno. They also said if I ever had a problem they could reinstall the stock tune. They also said there is no guarantee that Harley will not find out. That they know of people who had problems in the past doing that. I have to say, Im very happy with the way my bike is running now (power and Torque) I personally wouldnt go with any other tuner other than screaming eagle. With these motors having the sumping problems I would rather not take a chance. Im excited to see what the bike will be like after the stage 2. Ill be sure to keep you posted
Grand HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 918
From: coast to coast
A lot of the thinking regarding tuning comes from past experiences with Twin Cams. Those motors were great, but severely hobbled from the factory by the EPA. Screaming Eagle’s original race tuner was a fine piece of hardware that eventually got discontinued due to further restrictions. In those days a dyno and custom tune were very important to rescue the motor from factory specs.
Fast forward to the M8....it is efficient and no longer overly lean from the factory. The SE tune and kit is actually pretty good. They are in a better place regarding performance and EPA specs with this new motor and no longer have to destroy their own creation to sell it.
Can you get “more” out of an aftermarket kit and tune? Yes, but it is not the same difference it once was. I think you’ll be happy starting with the SE tuner and still be warranty safe.
Fast forward to the M8....it is efficient and no longer overly lean from the factory. The SE tune and kit is actually pretty good. They are in a better place regarding performance and EPA specs with this new motor and no longer have to destroy their own creation to sell it.
Can you get “more” out of an aftermarket kit and tune? Yes, but it is not the same difference it once was. I think you’ll be happy starting with the SE tuner and still be warranty safe.