will stage 1 upgrade make a noticeable difference ?

Reply Subscribe

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

Aug 7, 2015 | 02:48 AM

#41

bklynbob

Grand HDF Member

Joined: Mar 2008

Posts: 4,998

Likes: 655

From: bklyn,ny

You get the the biggest powergain from a stage 1, as lonG as the correct parts are installed and tuned correctly.youcantdo cams without essentially doing the stage 1at the same time.

Aug 7, 2015 | 02:52 AM

#42

didav-oz

Thread Starter

Intermediate

Joined: Jul 2015

Posts: 29

Likes: 0

From: Australia

Quote:

Originally Posted by bklynbob

You get the the biggest powergain from a stage 1, as lonG as the correct parts are installed and tuned correctly.youcantdo cams without essentially doing the stage 1at the same time.

hi, yes I gathered that, appreciated

Aug 7, 2015 | 09:54 AM

#43

hoethree

Elite HDF Member

Joined: Apr 2009

Posts: 3,780

Likes: 69

From: Al Bu Ker Key, New Mexico

Quote:

Originally Posted by DK Custom

There are so many different ways to go with a "Stage I". Most will get you more low end torque. Many will be very expensive. Many will make your MPG suffer. Most will make it run better at first, but as time goes by, you will slowly lose much of the initial improvement.

A good Stage I will give you more torque, not just in the low RPM's, but all the way thru the RPM band, will increase your MPG, will run cooler, and will increase the longevity of the engine.

Here is a Dyno Chart of a good Stage I on a Softail Heritage-

You can see more info on the difference between most Stage I's, and good Stage I's at this LINK

Could you please elaborate on your statement that most Stage 1 mods initial improvements will slowly be lost over time? I dont get this.

Aug 7, 2015 | 11:52 AM

#44

bikenut1957

Seasoned HDF Member

Joined: Jan 2011

Posts: 11,240

Likes: 2,293

From: Lake Seminole

Go with the stage 1 for now. It will wake your bike up, Harley chokes em' to death from the factory.
It will run better, sound better and exhaust better. It will also run cooler, extending the life of the engine.
A cam can come later.
Make sure to at least do a Dyno tune, as it will reveal any problems that might arise from the install.

Aug 8, 2015 | 12:19 AM

#45

Sparkee...

Road Master

Joined: Aug 2012

Posts: 1,008

Likes: 229

From: Saskatchewan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan.1977P

If you put a performance junkie on a tbw bike, they will pitch a fit if you make it less sensitive. Anyone who wants more power will want zero lag when they grab the throttle.

There is already some exponential settings applied on touring models at the factory as well as in the maps included with the SEPST. Done right there is no lag or loss of power, it just softens the throttle position close to idle.

I don't think I would want my fully loaded touring bike to have 1:1 throttle response when doing slow speed first gear maneuvers in a busy parking lot. Although setting it to 1:1 maybe worth an experiment when I get home and unload it.

Aug 8, 2015 | 01:28 AM

#46

DK Custom

Platinum Sponsor

Joined: Nov 2010

Posts: 18,685

Likes: 5,819

From: Hickory Flat, Mississippi

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman77

Waste of time. Make it sound right and leave it alone. I just pulled off my K&N and retuned the engine. Stage one does not much of anything except expense.
Its an HD and its not a racer. You want to go fast on an HD you gotta go all out.
It is what it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oct1949

I can't vouch for the 103, But my 96''er didn't change much when I did the STG 1 with pipe, A/C, SERT turner and Dyno...

But when I added the Andrews 26H cam,, THAT made a MAJOR difference in low end TQ....

I know the 103 produces about the same stock STG 1 as my Cammed 96''er so I'd have to ride a newer bike to really give a better answer.

.

The Twin Cam 88's and 96's get just as much benefit from a Good Stage I as the 103's.

But as I stated above, there are many different implementations of Stage I, and some, as you've experienced, don't do much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by didav-oz

many thanks for your reply, it seems the cams are the go, quite a few others are saying the same,

As stated, before doing cams, you need to do a Stage I. After doing the Stage I, you might have all that you want power wise and not need to go further (with cams).

__________________
DKCustomProducts.com

Call/Text: 662-252-8828
Email: Support@DKCustomProducts.com
Open House Details

Aug 8, 2015 | 01:39 AM

#47

didav-oz

Thread Starter

Intermediate

Joined: Jul 2015

Posts: 29

Likes: 0

From: Australia

Quote:

Originally Posted by bikenut1957

Ok, thankyou ! the dyno tune must be the go, as compared to just a tune download

Aug 8, 2015 | 01:48 AM

#48

DK Custom

Platinum Sponsor

Joined: Nov 2010

Posts: 18,685

Likes: 5,819

From: Hickory Flat, Mississippi

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoethree

Could you please elaborate on your statement that most Stage 1 mods initial improvements will slowly be lost over time? I dont get this.

Every week we get people telling us that their bike ran well last year. They have not changed anything, but it is not running nearly as well this year...or it might be two years between when it ran well, and it is noticed that it is not running nearly as strong. (and many never notice it because it happens gradually, over a period of 5k to 10K miles)

95% of the time this is because of the following-

The vast majority of Stage I's utilize an air cleaner that pushes the crankcase blowby/pressure back into the combustion chambers.

This builds up carbon on the pistons (see pics below), which increases the compression. The ECM sees that this increased compression, and carbon deposits, is getting close to causing the bike to ping/predetonate. When the ECM sees that predetonation is close to occurring, it will retard the timing to prevent damage. In retarding the timing, MPG goes down, power goes down and heat goes up.

Many will take their bike in and complain of poor MPG, poor power, and pay, AGAIN, to have the bike dyno tuned. This will improve the performance, but only for another 5k to 10k miles, during which the same cycle re-occurs because of even more carbon build-up.

The solution is to get an air cleaner that vents externally (see LINK), or to convert the current air cleaner to vent externally (see LINK).

There are many other factors that differentiate a bad or mediocre Stage I from a Good Stage I, you can see info on the all the differences on the bottom half of this INFO PAGE.

HD Forum Stories

The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders

Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Becomes a Dark, Decepticon-Inspired Custom

Verdad Gallardo

6 Weirdest Harley-Davidsons Ever Sold to the Public

Verdad Gallardo

7 Times Harley-Davidson Chucked Tradition Out the Window

Verdad Gallardo

7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles

Verdad Gallardo

8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever

Pouria Savadkouei

10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever

Pouria Savadkouei

Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In

Verdad Gallardo

Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?

Verdad Gallardo

Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept

Verdad Gallardo

Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II

Verdad Gallardo

Aug 8, 2015 | 05:37 AM

#49

Whtwolf14

Road Master

Joined: Oct 2013

Posts: 853

Likes: 48

From: Virginia

This is why I traded my Heritage for my Dyna. I will say that it woke up when I put a Xied on it. I ride mostly in the mountains, so I wanted some power for my style of riding. If your looking at moving to another bike, maybe that's the move you need to make for your style of riding. I picked up a Street Bob, and I'm good. I'll eventually get a DK A/C, and either another Xied for my model. But for now, I'm just riding.