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Ignition/Tuner/ECM/Fuel InjectionNeed advice on ignition issues? Questions about a tuner? Have questions about a EFI calibration or Fuel Injection? Tips on Engine Diagnostics, how to get codes, and what they mean. Find your answers here.
Ed gave you some very good advice.
Research the forum and notice how he is aware of M&M fuel injection.
You have also been provided a list of common stuff in a few posts to review and get back with results.
Forum members would like for you to succeed but keep in mind that individuals are not next to you, they can not see the bike, they can not hear, they can not touch bike and they can not perform diagnostics.
If they do not receive answers for questions asked then it is not really possible to go any further.
Notice that not too many members are responding.
There are others that are familiar with your era of M & M fuel injection but are probably awaiting results of suggested diagnostics.
The code 56 gets triggered for any bad start, any hiccup, a kick back at start and just about any weird start or shut off.
It will also trigger when it starts to melt the original factory beige sealant.
It can also trigger if bike was about to shut off but somehow caught itself (perhaps it was rolling) and stayed ON..
Basically anytime the timing signal does not match.
If you felt a misfire then THAT could trigger a #56 too.
Disconnect of negative battery cable will clear codes.
CAM position sensor questions seem to not have been responded with detail.
For example:
You stated CAM sensor was changed...by who?...to what Brand of sensor...what mounting position of sensor.
Generally the timer cone circle cover has 2 rivets....If you changed it then it would probably have bolts but sometimes individuals do use factory style rivets for the V2 timer cover circle.
The engine temperature sensor is a suspect but perhaps not.
Numerous reports of surging throttle when that sensor goes bad since it is getting a bad signal.
Basically makes bike not rideable.
It is really difficult to know unless diagnostics are performed. A code is not always displayed.
If you have a cheap digital voltage meter then it should not be too difficult to check temp sensor once removed.
If somebody replaced that temp sensor and broke the wiring clip to that sensor then perhaps there is a weak contact.
If somebody used dielectric grease then perhaps the sensor is getting a poor resistance reading since dielectric grease is non-conductive.
Or perhaps the sensor is just bad.
Basically the motor needs fuel, spark and air but with fuel injected the sensors perform a bit of a dance.
One incorrect signal and the rhythm is gone.
The items listed earlier in the thread would help you to identify if things are in order and are not too difficult to confirm via simple diagnostics.
***The calibration of the ECM is a wild card since i remember the catalog showing the stage TWO required a cartridge thing and that would require a dealership or somebody with scan tool to address.
I hope it was not the ECM since those are expensive.
I understand that it can be frustrating but you probably will not get much input from forum members unless diagnostics are performed and answers are detailed.
I believe an independant shop with a Centurian should be able to read it. I won't lend out my scanalyzer, but if you want to ship the ECMs, I will read the cal ids.
these forum members don't know how lucky there are..
So let me clarify - the bike was running like a dream - had it just right and then I ran the battery down and jumped it and whether there was a short or the lithium jump pack i used sent a surge or the battery was so depleted that it surged out and fried the capacitors across the bike - I don't know - although I'd love to know root cause my main concern is trying to restore the bike to performance.
The bike's set-up hasn't really changed in 5 years and all sensors replaced were done so according to instructions either with the part or YouTube or other advice. I've changed the cam and crank position sensors, as well as the temp sensor, I've tuned the CPS. I rebuilt he induction module and cleaned and serviced the injectors new orings all around - i replaced the fuel lines with Goodrich. It's got stock pipes and the stage 1 kit is really just air. The previous owner said he modified stock slip-ons but other than that the pipes are stock. I can snake a camera into the tank to check but I'm pretty certain that this isn't a fouled liner. None of this work was done recently - the most recent was the induction rebuild about a year ago.
But all that said - the bike ran great until i killed it by frying all these components...
I have no idea what the ECM came out of other than the part numbers match and the seller stated the bike was running strong when he converted to carb and it was completely stock - he has another that he's going to send to me to give me another reference point in case it is the way its mapped.
Still check fuel pressure.... see the numbers or do the test to see if it holds pressure. I know the timing of events occurred after the electrical blowout, so we are focused on electronic components , and the fact that the bike ran fine, until these components were replaced, especially the ecm which brings in the variable of a different map. But still check the basics by actually checking fuel pressure.
Interesting thread and it's definitely running lean as if injectors aren't being fired properly for demand on airflow...
I would definitely send my ECM to Ed...
Look gents I know its says novice next to my name but Ive been working on my Harleys for quite a very long time and Ive been working on this particular one about 9 yrs. So as I appreciate all the advice not a fan of the perception that Im lost. I know my bike and I know whats been replaced and repaired and the nuances that went along with it all. I came here to look for some pointers not answers - Ill solve my problem not any of you. This is simply a sounding board for me and a chance to think more in depth about the problem leverage some excellent experience from the community.
So continuing my troubleshooting - I reset the codes and checked they were gone - I then used some tie wraps to make a harness for the crank position sensor barrel plug and then took it for a 2 lap test ride around the block. Kicked it over clean as a whistle, as it always does, and headed down the road - leaned on the throttle and got to 3rd before the end of my street - came to a stop and down shifted turned and kept goin - first lap was uneventful.at the top of my street on the second lap I could feel the hesitation coming on and by the time I took the turn it was surging and bogging and popping again. Limped it back home and checked and lo and behold again it caught another 56.
I know some of you have said its usually a false cause by some interruption in signal that could be unrelated to either of the cam or crank position sensors. But the electrical and systems engineer in me
said follow linear problem solving first and so I drilled out the 2 rivets on the cam nose
cone and took a look and I believe I have a cooked cam/ignition sensor.
Look gents I know it’s says novice next to my name but I’ve been working on my Harley’s for quite a very long time and I’ve been working on this particular one about 9 yrs. So as I appreciate all the advice not a fan of the perception that I’m lost. I know my bike and I know what’s been replaced and repaired and the nuances that went along with it all. I came here to look for some pointers not answers - I’ll solve my problem not any of you. This is simply a sounding board for me and a chance to think more in depth about the problem leverage some excellent experience from the community.
So continuing my troubleshooting - I reset the codes and checked they were gone - I then used some tie wraps to make a harness for the crank position sensor barrel plug and then took it for a 2 lap test ride around the block. Kicked it over clean as a whistle, as it always does, and headed down the road - leaned on the throttle and got to 3rd before the end of my street - came to a stop and down shifted turned and kept goin - first lap was uneventful.at the top of my street on the second lap I could feel the hesitation coming on and by the time I took the turn it was surging and bogging and popping again. Limped it back home and checked and lo and behold again it caught another 56.
I know some of you have said it’s usually a false cause by some interruption in signal that could be unrelated to either of the cam or crank position sensors. But the electrical and systems engineer in me
said follow linear problem solving first and so I drilled out the 2 rivets on the cam nose
cone and took a look and I believe I have a cooked cam/ignition sensor.
so thats why when it warms up it starts playing up..... huh ,let us know when you change it how it goes. Seems like these sensors have a history of melting, saw some other posts here with it. Saw a pic of a new sensor and it looks like the glue melted. Interesting to know if this alone is what is causing your issue
Last edited by paulmedford; Aug 3, 2024 at 03:25 PM.
Your cam sensor is bolted in the wrong position.
Fuel injected uses the two fixed holes not adjustable slots.
So your timing is off.
Really? Its been like this since I got the bike and Ive had it nearly 10 yrs not to doubt you but is there a manual entry you can point to for that recommendation?
1998 manual PN99483-98
Section SENSORS
9-82
Bottom left.
CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR.
"Except that it is indexed off fixed mounting holes and senses a new timer cup"
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