Power Vision Information Thread
I tried changing the value but the resultant miles to empty was really bad. My sense is that this number is built exclusively for that parameter so I put it back. The miles to empty on the speedometer works well again. Using trip center allows the miles to empty to be correct while giving a better read on fuel mileage. I use trip center to make the correction to fuel used. It adjusts the MPG on all read outs so I can put the MPG calculation on.
I'll be honest, I have a new drink holder that blocks my view of the gas guage. But I don't even need to see it, the PV is so much better!
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
The bike must be in closed loop to record the information to make VE corrections. That tells me that .977 is being considered Open-loop. I would be curious to see but I bet .978 would generate changes. They say To enable closed loop Lambda values must be between .977 and 1.02 or AFR must be 14.6. so I bet it must be from .978 to 1.01. Let me know if you try that.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,268
Likes: 8
From: Detroit, the asshole of America
[quote=Sam2010;8731598]I tried a experiment on my timing to see if the bike would run cooler at first it seem like it helped but over all it did not. I changed 16 cells by 50% between the front and rear cylinder. Couple cells in idle area and two pockets of cells on F and R in the 2000,2750 rpm and 40,50 kpa range. Bike spark knock easy on light throttle.quote]
Not to be harsh, but you really have to be careful, you're lucky you didn't hurt the bike. It is very easy to damage a motor with too much timing, even at lighter loads. It's best to make changes with things like timing in very small increments. The knock sensors cannot save you in situations like you just described.
Not to be harsh, but you really have to be careful, you're lucky you didn't hurt the bike. It is very easy to damage a motor with too much timing, even at lighter loads. It's best to make changes with things like timing in very small increments. The knock sensors cannot save you in situations like you just described.
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
From: Pompano Beach,, Fl.
Throttle position??
Just wondering,..at zero throttle the PV shows 5% should this be Zero?? What is the procedure for zeroing the throttle?? Sales guy showed me in the parking lot the day I picked up my bike and I forget the sequence.
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
From: Pompano Beach,, Fl.
Found it!
NOTE
Whenever a new twist grip sensor (or ECM) is installed, place
the engine run/stop switch in the RUN position and turn the
ignition/light keys witch to IGNITION and then back to OFF four
times (without starting engine). Allow at least three seconds
to elapse between ignition cycles. As the ECM uses the first
four ignition cycles to establish the optimum idle speed, there
may be initial performance problems if the procedure is not
performed.
However,... should TP show 0% when throttle is at idle???
Whenever a new twist grip sensor (or ECM) is installed, place
the engine run/stop switch in the RUN position and turn the
ignition/light keys witch to IGNITION and then back to OFF four
times (without starting engine). Allow at least three seconds
to elapse between ignition cycles. As the ECM uses the first
four ignition cycles to establish the optimum idle speed, there
may be initial performance problems if the procedure is not
performed.
However,... should TP show 0% when throttle is at idle???
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,858
Likes: 217
From: Puyallup Wa.
It still was not as much timing as a stock tune. I made a thought out decision. It did not spark knock any MORE than the tune I got from Fuel Moto. It just spark knock easier "with less throttle" I am not worried because I would never continue to ride the bike spark knocking uncontrollably. I was looking to make the bike run cooler because according to the heat police my bike will melt down long before it spark knocks it self to death. LOL I had read that advance can help run cooler however that was not the case in my experiment. LOL
[quote=blusmbl;8740178]
[quote=blusmbl;8740178]
I tried a experiment on my timing to see if the bike would run cooler at first it seem like it helped but over all it did not. I changed 16 cells by 50% between the front and rear cylinder. Couple cells in idle area and two pockets of cells on F and R in the 2000,2750 rpm and 40,50 kpa range. Bike spark knock easy on light throttle.quote]
Not to be harsh, but you really have to be careful, you're lucky you didn't hurt the bike. It is very easy to damage a motor with too much timing, even at lighter loads. It's best to make changes with things like timing in very small increments. The knock sensors cannot save you in situations like you just described.
Not to be harsh, but you really have to be careful, you're lucky you didn't hurt the bike. It is very easy to damage a motor with too much timing, even at lighter loads. It's best to make changes with things like timing in very small increments. The knock sensors cannot save you in situations like you just described.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
NOTE
Whenever a new twist grip sensor (or ECM) is installed, place
the engine run/stop switch in the RUN position and turn the
ignition/light keys witch to IGNITION and then back to OFF four
times (without starting engine). Allow at least three seconds
to elapse between ignition cycles. As the ECM uses the first
four ignition cycles to establish the optimum idle speed, there
may be initial performance problems if the procedure is not
performed.
However,... should TP show 0% when throttle is at idle???
Whenever a new twist grip sensor (or ECM) is installed, place
the engine run/stop switch in the RUN position and turn the
ignition/light keys witch to IGNITION and then back to OFF four
times (without starting engine). Allow at least three seconds
to elapse between ignition cycles. As the ECM uses the first
four ignition cycles to establish the optimum idle speed, there
may be initial performance problems if the procedure is not
performed.
However,... should TP show 0% when throttle is at idle???
The procedure you described above will reset a high idle problem. On these TBW bikes if you turn the bike off while it is idling higher, it will learn the new higher idle. That can be caused by leaving your hand on the throttle and thumbing the run/stop switch.
Last edited by JustDennis; Aug 26, 2011 at 06:36 AM.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,858
Likes: 217
From: Puyallup Wa.
[quote so I bet it must be from .978 to 1.01. Let me know if you try that.[/quote]
I tried it and I got no VE generated from the run. The data logger logged the let Lambda as .977 double checked and I can tell from the data log because I had my idle Rpm set at 900 and I can clearly see that in the log. I had another tune set up at .981 and did the exact same run/ride as I did for .978 I did get new VEs generated from the .981 run.
1) Is bike in open loop or closed loop or is this just the power vision software that does not generate VE changes. I can see old and new VEs in the data log.
Suggestion for dynojet is it possible to put a identifier on the data log of what tune made the log. is there anyway to see what tune generated the data log that I dont see. I have been keeping notes/dates of the data logs but seems like it would be nice to open a data log and have the information on the log or some identifier of what tune was flashed to the bike that made that log.
side note observation from my tune runs. I am not going to jump to conclusions yet. But I have observed two times in a row that my oil temps are seemingly cooler with 3 degrees of timing pulled on entire table and one run I did with fuel set at .977 and one run at .978 I have run bike with no timing pulled and fuel set at .977 and did not observe as much difference. I did one run with 3* timing pulled and fuel set at .981 and oil temps climb right up with in a few blocks. Bike runs fine with the timing pulled in fact I thought the bike acted a little less angry if you will. I think I have good data on my VEs I am now wanting a good timing table tuning strategy.
I tried it and I got no VE generated from the run. The data logger logged the let Lambda as .977 double checked and I can tell from the data log because I had my idle Rpm set at 900 and I can clearly see that in the log. I had another tune set up at .981 and did the exact same run/ride as I did for .978 I did get new VEs generated from the .981 run.
1) Is bike in open loop or closed loop or is this just the power vision software that does not generate VE changes. I can see old and new VEs in the data log.
Suggestion for dynojet is it possible to put a identifier on the data log of what tune made the log. is there anyway to see what tune generated the data log that I dont see. I have been keeping notes/dates of the data logs but seems like it would be nice to open a data log and have the information on the log or some identifier of what tune was flashed to the bike that made that log.
side note observation from my tune runs. I am not going to jump to conclusions yet. But I have observed two times in a row that my oil temps are seemingly cooler with 3 degrees of timing pulled on entire table and one run I did with fuel set at .977 and one run at .978 I have run bike with no timing pulled and fuel set at .977 and did not observe as much difference. I did one run with 3* timing pulled and fuel set at .981 and oil temps climb right up with in a few blocks. Bike runs fine with the timing pulled in fact I thought the bike acted a little less angry if you will. I think I have good data on my VEs I am now wanting a good timing table tuning strategy.
Last edited by Sam2010; Aug 26, 2011 at 10:50 AM. Reason: I had to edit .977 to .978
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
Out of curiosity, what kind of Lambda variance do you see with open-loop and NB closed-loop? I have yet to connect my NB sensors and probably won't, but in open-loop I'm not seeing much variance while monitoring the cruise range, maybe ą.02 Lambda. I think this is very close and I wonder what functional purpose there would be running NB closed-loop. Would it then vary ą.01 or less? If so, I don't think this would make a positive impact on mileage, cooling, or any other measurable factor.
To address some of your comments, once the VE values are set my bike shows pretty consistent Lambda values everywhere. It isn't really a question of whether tuning with the WB or stock O2 sensors makes the Lambda values closer but what can you use the stock O2 sensors for after tuning. What DynoJet and FuelMoto suggest is that once the tune is set, you can reinstall the stock O2 sensors, enable the adaptive fuel logic in the ECM and the bike will use the O2 sensors to adjust for things like changes in fuel, elevation and other environmental factors while running in closed loop. It doesn't change your tune but it makes the bike function with the "new" tune as it is designed. If you plan to run in closed loop, I think this is an excellent option.
On the other hand, if you run in open loop like I am doing (AFR set to 14.1), the adaptive feature of the ECM would not be working. If I choose to run closed loop (14.6), I will use the stock O2 sensors and turn on the adaptive fuel. I have a version of my tune set exactly that way. Hope that helps.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 228
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Does anyone know why Dynojet Recommends setting the Closed-loop bias values to 750mv accross the board while auto-tuning? My FM base map has all these values set to 700mv and I have been doing my datalogs with 700 instead of 750 in the CLB table. Will it make a difference in the final outcome?
Also, when using auto-tune basic, is it acceptable to set-up a tune file-->run datalogs-->generate a new updated tune-->download this updated tune to the ECM and run it for a while. Then, at a later date, develop a new tune file using this updated tune-->run datalogs and the auto-tune procedure to develop an even more updated tune at a future date?
The reason I as this is because I have to do my dataloging/tuning in spurts and I have found that am not hitting anywhere near all of the VE cells in one logging session.
Thanks, Dave.
Also, when using auto-tune basic, is it acceptable to set-up a tune file-->run datalogs-->generate a new updated tune-->download this updated tune to the ECM and run it for a while. Then, at a later date, develop a new tune file using this updated tune-->run datalogs and the auto-tune procedure to develop an even more updated tune at a future date?
The reason I as this is because I have to do my dataloging/tuning in spurts and I have found that am not hitting anywhere near all of the VE cells in one logging session.
Thanks, Dave.