Power Vision Information Thread
Road Master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 766
Likes: 3
From: SoCal Desert
Originally Posted by iclick
The next FW version will likely have at least an instant MPG gauge, which updates about once per second. This would be great! We could datalog that signal along with others (MAP, RPM, TP, engine temp, etc.) and determine what conditions are using the most fuel, what gears are the best at what speeds, etc. It may also include an average MPG gauge that can be reset on-the-fly and retain its data. IOW, you could set it at the beginning of a trip and expect it to give an average for the entire trip.
Originally Posted by iclick
They are also reportedly going to add another useful feature, which is to return to the last gauge state after booting. With the present FW version you must punch two buttons to return to the gauge screen.I've had a few occasions where I've punched the wrong button on the screen while the bike is running, usually with gloves on, and in bright sunlight can't see what to push to exit and start over. Going right to the gauges will be a big improvement, IMO.
Originally Posted by iclick
Also, a bug in WinPV prevents the datalogger to transfer >2mb of data to a CSV file, so beyond that point the file is truncated. This has been fixed in the newest version also to be released soon.
Originally Posted by iclick
Anyone else have any updates on their experiences with PV? Mine's doing fine and I leave the module on the bike at all times. I really like the gauges, and have been datalogging quite a bit. This has shown me where my spark-knock occurs and has allowed me to tune it out.
-Dusty
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 126
Likes: 8
From: CA
Just installed the latest Beta FW, it fixes a bug in the flash tune to strategy 141 ecu, but as a bonus it has the mpg function added in, unfortunately it's raining here for the next few days so I can't test it out.
Iclick-what are you using for gauges to catch the pinging events? I've got a couple spots in my tune that rattle when the temp is just right, really hard to pin down with just an ear and tach.
Joe
Iclick-what are you using for gauges to catch the pinging events? I've got a couple spots in my tune that rattle when the temp is just right, really hard to pin down with just an ear and tach.
Joe
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
If your current map is not reasonably well optimized for the bike, particularly at high RPMs and high loads, the less suitable the Basic AT will be for the bike. If the map you're currently running runs well or your engine is rather basic and therefore one of the Dynojet/Fuelmoto maps is a nice match for your bike, then the Basic AT will work just fine and make noticeable improvements to off-the-line and throttle responsiveness.
If you don't have a well matched map for the bike and there isn't one from Fuelmoto or Dynojet, then you have 2 options: Take the PV to an experienced tuner and have the bike dyno-tuned and then use the Basic AT feature for further refinement OR skip the dyno-tune and go with the Pro AT and WB sensors.
Alot of guys will tell you that there's no substitute for starting with a dyno-tuned map if you have a very experienced tuner. I tend to be in that camp, at least for now. Maybe once there's a more extensive map library for different engine combinations, I'll feel differently but for now in my case a dyno-tune was called for. Therefore I got the bike tuned with the PV by a local tuner and intend to make refinements to that map using the Basic AT. But I have a relatively highly customized engine for which there aren't any maps yet. (and I also have 12mm O2 sensors and there are no reasonable WB sensors at this smaller size.)
If I had a basic engine for which there are various maps to try from Fuelmoto or directly from Dynojet, I would try those various maps, see which one performed best by seat-o-pants and then I would run Basic AT against the map multiple times.
You can always add the WB sensors later along with the AT-100.
Last edited by Heatwave; Mar 22, 2011 at 07:06 AM.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
Iclick-what are you using for gauges to catch the pinging events? I've got a couple spots in my tune that rattle when the temp is just right, really hard to pin down with just an ear and tach.
Last edited by iclick; Mar 22, 2011 at 10:26 AM.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
Responding to Heatwave's last reply, I think he's given a good representation of the two AT options.
I am running a tune that obtained its VE tables from the PCV map that had been auto-tuning for two years (PCV map import feature), so I'm confident it is a very optimal tune for AFRs. This feature is not available for TBW bikes, unfortunately. I'm tweaking the spark advance by datalogging the Knock Retard signals and matching them up to KPA and RPM. So, I'm thinking that although I have the AT-100 on the bike now but not connected to the PV, that I may not really need it unless gas quality changes in the future. I don't see changing altitude as a problem either, as the MAP sensor should take care of that. I also don't see E10 being phased-out to pure gas, at least not in this area, and I think E10 is the norm throughout the country by now. I may do some datalogs once the AT-100 Pro app is released, but I don't think it'll realize any meaningful changes for me. OTOH I may just let it run indefinitely and apply the changes as a matter of routine, like maybe once every week.
I am running a tune that obtained its VE tables from the PCV map that had been auto-tuning for two years (PCV map import feature), so I'm confident it is a very optimal tune for AFRs. This feature is not available for TBW bikes, unfortunately. I'm tweaking the spark advance by datalogging the Knock Retard signals and matching them up to KPA and RPM. So, I'm thinking that although I have the AT-100 on the bike now but not connected to the PV, that I may not really need it unless gas quality changes in the future. I don't see changing altitude as a problem either, as the MAP sensor should take care of that. I also don't see E10 being phased-out to pure gas, at least not in this area, and I think E10 is the norm throughout the country by now. I may do some datalogs once the AT-100 Pro app is released, but I don't think it'll realize any meaningful changes for me. OTOH I may just let it run indefinitely and apply the changes as a matter of routine, like maybe once every week.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 126
Likes: 8
From: CA
Do you have FW 659 or 694? The latter has an instant MPG gauge, a feature to delete tunes on the PV, and return to last state at boot-up. I think 659 had the delete feature, but not return to last state (RTLS from now on), and the MPG gauge wasn't instant but averaged only within a given on-off cycle.
I'm using Front Knock Retard and Rear Knock Retard. This shows how much retard is being used by the knock sensor to address a knock event. It isn't too practical as a gauge, as the events pop-up quickly and you must watch the gauge too much, but when you datalog you can see everything and where it occurs (KPA, RPM, TP, etc.). I have an event at around 60KPA and 2000-2500 rpms on the rear cylinder and have been trying to tune it out, but am thinking it may be a false event, as it keeps popping up. I hate to keep pulling advance out but will keep working with it.
I'm using Front Knock Retard and Rear Knock Retard. This shows how much retard is being used by the knock sensor to address a knock event. It isn't too practical as a gauge, as the events pop-up quickly and you must watch the gauge too much, but when you datalog you can see everything and where it occurs (KPA, RPM, TP, etc.). I have an event at around 60KPA and 2000-2500 rpms on the rear cylinder and have been trying to tune it out, but am thinking it may be a false event, as it keeps popping up. I hate to keep pulling advance out but will keep working with it.
Interesting, my rattle is right around the same rpm range, still don't have my head around the kpa thing, used to throttle position. But the rattle happens at minimal throttle when a twist it a bit to speed up, say around town when someone ahead of me accelerates and I pick it up a bit to stay with the flow.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
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Do you have FW 659 or 694? The latter has an instant MPG gauge, a feature to delete tunes on the PV, and return to last state at boot-up. I think 659 had the delete feature, but not return to last state (RTLS from now on), and the MPG gauge wasn't instant but averaged only within a given on-off cycle.
I'm using Front Knock Retard and Rear Knock Retard. This shows how much retard is being used by the knock sensor to address a knock event. It isn't too practical as a gauge, as the events pop-up quickly and you must watch the gauge too much, but when you datalog you can see everything and where it occurs (KPA, RPM, TP, etc.). I have an event at around 60KPA and 2000-2500 rpms on the rear cylinder and have been trying to tune it out, but am thinking it may be a false event, as it keeps popping up. I hate to keep pulling advance out but will keep working with it.
I'm using Front Knock Retard and Rear Knock Retard. This shows how much retard is being used by the knock sensor to address a knock event. It isn't too practical as a gauge, as the events pop-up quickly and you must watch the gauge too much, but when you datalog you can see everything and where it occurs (KPA, RPM, TP, etc.). I have an event at around 60KPA and 2000-2500 rpms on the rear cylinder and have been trying to tune it out, but am thinking it may be a false event, as it keeps popping up. I hate to keep pulling advance out but will keep working with it.
I'm sure there are other examples but I would think this would be a relatively simple development effort to have the gauge display the highest (or lowest) recording for a particular metric at the press of a button.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
That's the latest beta-FW and I'm running that too as of this weekend. It goes with WinPV 19, too.
Yeah, I still don't understand the KPA concept either, as I think of manifold pressure as being negative (vacuum)--so I don't know what KPA is telling us, although it loosely relates to TP. I've had both MAP and TP showing on my gauges so I can watch the relationship.
I'm not hearing any detonation at all, but occasionally see Spark Retard of 8° in the datalogs, which is the maximum setting. IOW, it won't retard more that that value. Oddly, I'm not having any knock issues with the front cylinder there, but it shows knock retard at high-RPM WOT while the rear doesn't. That makes no sense to me. I made some changes a week or so ago to the front in the low-KPA (50-60), low-RPM (2000-2300) area, but looking at a datalog last weekend I see knock-retard still showing there. I made more changes and will check again, and if it hasn't changed I may put it back where it was originally, as it may be sensing a false knock. That's apparently when the knock sensor sees incipient knock but it is in fact something else triggering it. I'll be watching that area carefully.
Interesting, my rattle is right around the same rpm range, still don't have my head around the kpa thing, used to throttle position. But the rattle happens at minimal throttle when a twist it a bit to speed up, say around town when someone ahead of me accelerates and I pick it up a bit to stay with the flow.
I'm not hearing any detonation at all, but occasionally see Spark Retard of 8° in the datalogs, which is the maximum setting. IOW, it won't retard more that that value. Oddly, I'm not having any knock issues with the front cylinder there, but it shows knock retard at high-RPM WOT while the rear doesn't. That makes no sense to me. I made some changes a week or so ago to the front in the low-KPA (50-60), low-RPM (2000-2300) area, but looking at a datalog last weekend I see knock-retard still showing there. I made more changes and will check again, and if it hasn't changed I may put it back where it was originally, as it may be sensing a false knock. That's apparently when the knock sensor sees incipient knock but it is in fact something else triggering it. I'll be watching that area carefully.
Last edited by iclick; Mar 22, 2011 at 03:07 PM.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
That might be a feature to ask about. Would it be possible to have the developers look at a "tattle tale" feature for the gauges. For example, if Speed was one of the gauges, with a "tattle-tale" button it would show the highest speed achieved until the record was cleared. Another example might be on cyl. knock where the tattle tale button would pull up the largest retard the ECU used.
I'm sure there are other examples but I would think this would be a relatively simple development effort to have the gauge display the highest (or lowest) recording for a particular metric at the press of a button.
I'm sure there are other examples but I would think this would be a relatively simple development effort to have the gauge display the highest (or lowest) recording for a particular metric at the press of a button.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
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I'll relay that suggestion, but you can see all this in the datalog file. I've analyzed the spreadsheet files quite a bit but their behavior is not very consistent and my last change didn't seem to do much. If my last spark-advance change shows no reaction and I'm still getting the same amount of knock retard, I will probably put it back where it was originally and chalk it up to a false knock. Jamie says that happens occasionally, but I need to quiz him or the DJ engineer further about how this works.