Power Vision Information Thread
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 225
Likes: 6
No, didn't notice and I bet with the right conditions and wrong fuel it could still knock at that point. I think Stailjim retards another 2* just for safety after his knock events are under control. I have my Fuelmoto map and my HD stage one map for guidance as well. Once and a while I load my stage one map just to do a comparison to my developing map just to make sure it still pulls harder and still making improvements.
Road Captain
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 716
Likes: 10
From: Shreveport,La
Be aware that all knock events in you log files may not be real knock events. There is such a thing as a false knock event. If the ecm is not pulling the 8* max when it pulls the timing out on your log sheets and the events are short lived and not a large number of them, they may just be false events.
Timing advance makes power up to a point, then it hurts power. Retarding the timing can stop the knock events, but how much power do you give up and at what point do you call it good. That is the question many of us have to deal with. My bike runs great, but my logs will still show some knock events. I don't hear them and I listen for them. Are they real or false? Any engine can be made to knock under certain conditions, too tall a gear for a given speed and load. When that happens is it the tune or is it rider error?? See what I mean? I IMHO do not think you can ever stop all knock events in the logs without sacrificing some power. If power is not your thing then it is fine to tune that way. If you ride aggressive and flog the bike, like I have been known to do at times, then you may not like how it runs with that much timing pulled. I can't say for sure, but I would bet that if you could do a log with the stock tune on a Harley before any changes were made you would probably have some knock events in that factory tune. Maybe someone else who knows more than I do, which is everyone on here seems like, could give us more insight into how the ecm senses knock events and adjust for them in real time riding.
I am sure someone will have something to say about what I said....LOL, but again I am trying to learn what I can about timing too. Most of what I said has been told to me by Jamie at FM. I have decided to ride and enjoy my bike like it is now.
Timing advance makes power up to a point, then it hurts power. Retarding the timing can stop the knock events, but how much power do you give up and at what point do you call it good. That is the question many of us have to deal with. My bike runs great, but my logs will still show some knock events. I don't hear them and I listen for them. Are they real or false? Any engine can be made to knock under certain conditions, too tall a gear for a given speed and load. When that happens is it the tune or is it rider error?? See what I mean? I IMHO do not think you can ever stop all knock events in the logs without sacrificing some power. If power is not your thing then it is fine to tune that way. If you ride aggressive and flog the bike, like I have been known to do at times, then you may not like how it runs with that much timing pulled. I can't say for sure, but I would bet that if you could do a log with the stock tune on a Harley before any changes were made you would probably have some knock events in that factory tune. Maybe someone else who knows more than I do, which is everyone on here seems like, could give us more insight into how the ecm senses knock events and adjust for them in real time riding.
I am sure someone will have something to say about what I said....LOL, but again I am trying to learn what I can about timing too. Most of what I said has been told to me by Jamie at FM. I have decided to ride and enjoy my bike like it is now.
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 523
Likes: 1
From: kingston ontario
i have grown to like log tuner compared to auto tune for several reasons.
i like that i can set the number of hits required for the tune to make changes.
i like that i can pull (or not pull) timing if i want to... having done a number of AT runs i choose not to pull any... and i can deal with knock events at the same time if i so choose.
i like the idea of not changing my CLB for tuning runs (wish i had that option with AT)
all in all it seems that the changes from one run to the next are a lot smoother with LT than AT ( seems to be less fliers and less runs required to reach that "less than 5 percent" goal ) .... this actually surprised me and im not sure why it is like that.
it was one of the guides posted here (just dennis i believe) that i used to set up log tuner and the datalogging channels.
having said all that i do wonder if anyone has used LT without changing or turning off the AE, DE and PE ?
any reason why we cant/shouldnt do some tuning runs with them set up the way we do when running while not tuning ?
for the record i would not be using LT without retarding timing if i had not already done a number of AT runs.
i like that i can set the number of hits required for the tune to make changes.
i like that i can pull (or not pull) timing if i want to... having done a number of AT runs i choose not to pull any... and i can deal with knock events at the same time if i so choose.
i like the idea of not changing my CLB for tuning runs (wish i had that option with AT)
all in all it seems that the changes from one run to the next are a lot smoother with LT than AT ( seems to be less fliers and less runs required to reach that "less than 5 percent" goal ) .... this actually surprised me and im not sure why it is like that.
it was one of the guides posted here (just dennis i believe) that i used to set up log tuner and the datalogging channels.
having said all that i do wonder if anyone has used LT without changing or turning off the AE, DE and PE ?
any reason why we cant/shouldnt do some tuning runs with them set up the way we do when running while not tuning ?
for the record i would not be using LT without retarding timing if i had not already done a number of AT runs.
Last edited by goats; Jul 31, 2013 at 08:40 PM.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
From: on earth
unlock tune
In winpv I get a message reading Sorry this tune is locked and cannot be opened Is there someway to unlock this tune and also how did it get locked? I had someone download it for me. Did they somehow put a code. Thanks
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
i have grown to like log tuner compared to auto tune for several reasons.
i like that i can set the number of hits required for the tune to make changes.
i like that i can pull (or not pull) timing if i want to... having done a number of AT runs i choose not to pull any... and i can deal with knock events at the same time if i so choose.
i like the idea of not changing my CLB for tuning runs (wish i had that option with AT)
all in all it seems that the changes from one run to the next are a lot smoother with LT than AT ( seems to be less fliers and less runs required to reach that "less than 5 percent" goal ) .... this actually surprised me and im not sure why it is like that.
it was one of the guides posted here (just dennis i believe) that i used to set up log tuner and the datalogging channels.
having said all that i do wonder if anyone has used LT without changing or turning off the AE, DE and PE ?
any reason why we cant/shouldnt do some tuning runs with them set up the way we do when running while not tuning ?
for the record i would not be using LT without retarding timing if i had not already done a number of AT runs.
i like that i can set the number of hits required for the tune to make changes.
i like that i can pull (or not pull) timing if i want to... having done a number of AT runs i choose not to pull any... and i can deal with knock events at the same time if i so choose.
i like the idea of not changing my CLB for tuning runs (wish i had that option with AT)
all in all it seems that the changes from one run to the next are a lot smoother with LT than AT ( seems to be less fliers and less runs required to reach that "less than 5 percent" goal ) .... this actually surprised me and im not sure why it is like that.
it was one of the guides posted here (just dennis i believe) that i used to set up log tuner and the datalogging channels.
having said all that i do wonder if anyone has used LT without changing or turning off the AE, DE and PE ?
any reason why we cant/shouldnt do some tuning runs with them set up the way we do when running while not tuning ?
for the record i would not be using LT without retarding timing if i had not already done a number of AT runs.
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 523
Likes: 1
From: kingston ontario
thanks for the reply
i wouldnt change anything if i was just looking for knock.
i was just thinking about the effects on mapping the VE's
now that i have done some LT runs with those items turned off it will be interesting to see if there is much difference tuning with them on.
the other thing i forgot to mention in my previous post was that LT makes changes as low as 750 rpm and even if i change my idle and AT settings to allow changes that low i never see a difference in that rpm with AT.
and just so everyone knows i am not trying to bash AT, i am simply stating the things i have grown to like about LT... i am glad that i was able to start learning with autotune cause it is pretty easy to learn and a great way to get started.
Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
From: The Republic Of Texas
I started with LT and then they introduced AT. I never warmed up to AT and still prefer LT as well. I just wish you could use the green hit screen when collecting data without having to go into AT mode.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,378
Likes: 2
From: Macon, GA USA
Thanks I found it.
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
Flash the tune to your bike. Then load copy of currant and it can be saved as a custom tune. It then will be unlocked. Do this while you can. Dynojet i am sure will get complaints from tuners. If a tuner locks your tune he obviously did not want you to play with it. Im on the fence about this. he put in the work and doesnt want to share it.....i get that and respect that....also think i paid for the unit so i should be able to look and edit any tune i have in my bike.