Power Vision Information Thread
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
From: Massachusetts
If 4 degrees being pulled is your only problem you worry too much. Your earlier post said something about the list of problems can't even begin. Is there really a long list? Or were you just frustrated with poor results? Now, if you're willing to learn there just may be an answer. Possible? Taking 4 degrees out is a safety buffer for someone that buys the unit off the shelf, goes out to play Johnny Tuner with NO knowledge, overheats his engine, rev's the snot out of it, thinking he's tuning his bike. I could take 4 degrees out of your tune, not tell you, and you wouldn't notice squat. So, why are you worried about 4 degrees? Timing is an art, not something you can read on a forum as a rookie, and get it right. As far as LT goes, that isn't a guarantee either. All LT does is take out, what IT (algorithm) thinks is enough to JUST STOP the knock. Does it mean that's what the bike wants and will run smooth and at the best temperature? Nope. So, your wisdom of LT being the saving grace is not correct either. These are simply tools. If you're swinging a hammer and keep bending nails it's not the hammers fault. Take the time to learn how to use the tool and it will become your friend. If someone follows the basic steps they can get a decent tune. On the other hand, interpreting what a datalog is REALLY saying, takes time and commitment to learn. As I've said before, and will continue to say, most are better off playing it safe until they take the time to really commit themself to learning. if they do that there's alot of interesting things to learn. There are NO short cuts. So, is there really a list of problems? Or, is it something you don't understand that someone can help you with?
Log tuner adjust timing based on the knock events in your log from the timing you are runing in your map. There is no 4 deg retard right off the get go. retarding the timing 4 degs right from the start will not give you accurate knock events as this ( in my opnion ) will retard the entire table 4 degs. Starting 4 degs retarded will not catch ares that may normaly have knock events.
This is why i feel it is a flaw ( quirk )with the AT function with respect to the timing AT function. If dynojet had left it like log tuner ( not saying it is the saving grace at all )and it started tuning from the table in your map...this would have been more of an accurate timing AT function.I dont feel it is timing from your map because it is basicly creating a new timing table. just like AT creates a new A/F ratio before you start your AT runs. keep in mind i am only speaking of AT basic. i do not know how the AT pro function does it as i have narrow band sensors.
I know the 4degs is a saftey net. but the saftey net was designed ( again my personal opnion ) with setting the A/F table lean so the narrow band sensors can function properly. i think it was an over site on dynojets part. They could make the AT timing function usable by taking the 4 deg retard out of the function. But then i think they would have to disable the VE tuning when the unit is set to tune spark.
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Road Master
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 876
Likes: 65
From: CT
You're getting knock events in all the areas to be expected. Unless you know EXACTLY where to pull timing keep letting LT do it for you. Many have pulled their hair our chasing knock events, only to find out they were pulling from the wrong areas. Once all the events are gone pull 2 or 3 degrees and ride it for a while. Then go back and reread all the threads on timing.
Ok Help me out, First what is "LT"? Second I reflashed my previous tune, because the new logs showed as many if not more events, but the logs were from longer runs.
Any tips or links to any good timimg thread info? There are a lot of threads, and I must be missing the good stuff. For now I'm sticking with my previous tune, ot the one I made last night until I understand this more. Or if the events are normal or ok, no need for me to change anything, I'm not looking to chase a ghost.
Thanks Mike
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 55
From: Londonderry, NH
Ok Help me out, First what is "LT"? Second I reflashed my previous tune, because the new logs showed as many if not more events, but the logs were from longer runs.
Any tips or links to any good timimg thread info? There are a lot of threads, and I must be missing the good stuff. For now I'm sticking with my previous tune, ot the one I made last night until I understand this more. Or if the events are normal or ok, no need for me to change anything, I'm not looking to chase a ghost.
Thanks Mike
Any tips or links to any good timimg thread info? There are a lot of threads, and I must be missing the good stuff. For now I'm sticking with my previous tune, ot the one I made last night until I understand this more. Or if the events are normal or ok, no need for me to change anything, I'm not looking to chase a ghost.
Thanks Mike
http://www.dynojet.com/powervision/p...Power%20Vision
Log Tuner monitors knock events and reduces timing where required. It does this in small increments so it may take several data logs to get a completely knock free result. It does work. My tune is knock free.
There is a lot of timing info in this thread, however there are different opinions on what works best. I like to use as much spark advance as possible without creating knock events. I can feel a difference with the 4 degree retard that auto tune uses. As stated this is only my opinion.
Others like more margin in their tunes (4-5 degrees typically) and feel that most can't tell the difference with the 4 degee retard. Try it yourself and see if you notice, then decide what's best for you.
My guess is that your longer runs probably provide more useable data over a wider range...so more knock events.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
LT is Power Vision Log Tuner. On earlier versions, it was necessary to generate a new tune. Newer versions of the PV software have the Auto Tune function and Log Tuner isn't necessary with Auto Tune (so many newer users have never used it). Its still available on the DynoJet web site and can be very useful for trimming timing. There is also a user guide on the same page. I suggest you read the guide as it has some useful information.
http://www.dynojet.com/powervision/p...Power%20Vision
Log Tuner monitors knock events and reduces timing where required. It does this in small increments so it may take several data logs to get a completely knock free result. It does work. My tune is knock free.
There is a lot of timing info in this thread, however there are different opinions on what works best. I like to use as much spark advance as possible without creating knock events. I can feel a difference with the 4 degree retard that auto tune uses. As stated this is only my opinion.
Others like more margin in their tunes (4-5 degrees typically) and feel that most can't tell the difference with the 4 degee retard. Try it yourself and see if you notice, then decide what's best for you.
My guess is that your longer runs probably provide more useable data over a wider range...so more knock events.
http://www.dynojet.com/powervision/p...Power%20Vision
Log Tuner monitors knock events and reduces timing where required. It does this in small increments so it may take several data logs to get a completely knock free result. It does work. My tune is knock free.
There is a lot of timing info in this thread, however there are different opinions on what works best. I like to use as much spark advance as possible without creating knock events. I can feel a difference with the 4 degree retard that auto tune uses. As stated this is only my opinion.
Others like more margin in their tunes (4-5 degrees typically) and feel that most can't tell the difference with the 4 degee retard. Try it yourself and see if you notice, then decide what's best for you.
My guess is that your longer runs probably provide more useable data over a wider range...so more knock events.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 55
From: Londonderry, NH
Yes Log Tuner will analyze the log file, and build a new tune. It corrects for spark knock events and builds new timing into into the tunes it generates.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,928
Likes: 117
From: Ashby, Ma
It's a bit intimidating.
Another question I have goes to the necessity of doing this on a bike that his using stock engine components. When I monitor the knock-sensors, I get a small handful of hits per ride. Less that 20. So is that something to worry, and do the knock sensors inform the ECM of potential knock and then pull timing to eliminate the knock? Because I sure can't hear any knock, ping or feel anything to indicate this on my bike.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 55
From: Londonderry, NH
Those were after a bunch of AT runs. Only have a few cells more than 5% different from the last run. Bike runs great. Small amount of decel pop that I would like to get rid of.
I've always thought the bike ran hot and one of the reasons for wanting to do the stage 1 was to get it cooler. That didn't seem to help as many have experienced. Still bake when riding in warm weather in traffic.
How can I tell if I have pinging? Sure can't hear any.
I've always thought the bike ran hot and one of the reasons for wanting to do the stage 1 was to get it cooler. That didn't seem to help as many have experienced. Still bake when riding in warm weather in traffic.
How can I tell if I have pinging? Sure can't hear any.
The Stage 1 tune should help some with the engine heat. Your AFR's still look a bit lean.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 55
From: Londonderry, NH
Just went back and reread the LogTuner documentation you pointed too. I guess I'll need to really take my time and read through it again, the document seems to jump around a bit, because they are trying to cover basic and pro.. etc, so it isn't an easy read. and the link is broken to "CellMathToolbar" document.. but maybe that's okay.
It's a bit intimidating.
Another question I have goes to the necessity of doing this on a bike that his using stock engine components. When I monitor the knock-sensors, I get a small handful of hits per ride. Less that 20. So is that something to worry, and do the knock sensors inform the ECM of potential knock and then pull timing to eliminate the knock? Because I sure can't hear any knock, ping or feel anything to indicate this on my bike.
It's a bit intimidating.
Another question I have goes to the necessity of doing this on a bike that his using stock engine components. When I monitor the knock-sensors, I get a small handful of hits per ride. Less that 20. So is that something to worry, and do the knock sensors inform the ECM of potential knock and then pull timing to eliminate the knock? Because I sure can't hear any knock, ping or feel anything to indicate this on my bike.
I wouldn't be too concerned with a small number of hits, especially if the spark retard is small. Yes the ECM will correct for knocks that are sensed, but it doesn't store that info as far as I know...so it just retards the spark when it senses knocks. Its not unusual for you not to be able to hear the knocks. You have to analyze the data to see them.
My bike is generally knock free, thanks to log tuner, and I like as much advance as possible without triggering knock events.
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