Power Vision Information Thread
Supporter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,870
Likes: 4,083
From: Taylortucky, MI
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckinfitch
How do you like the PV? is it somewhat user friendly?,
I just sent my PCV to Fuel Moto to trade for the PV upgrade, he'll be sending thePV back premapped per my mods, although I think the Data Logging is cool, does the PV unit make suggested maps after data log reviews? for tweaking etc.?
Dan,
a.k.a. Buck
Dan, I love the PV and can't see any reason to move to anything else at this point. On the surface it is very user friendly due to the touch screen interface. HOwever, it is also very powerful considering all the ECM tables it can change. The map you get from FM will be a good starting point, but even with your mods every bike is a bit different, and your riding conditions will be different than a dyno. The PV doesn't suggest maps with the data logging. You have VE tables, basically a map of how the engine breathes. When you make logging runs it logs actual VE under real conditions vs the factory table, or the table contained in the map FM will send you. You then incorporate those real world numbers and adjust the VE table and flash the ECM with the updated map. Then you do it again and again until the changes are minimal. Tuning this way gives the best result with how and where you ride vs a controlled dyno room. Then in the future if you make changes to the bike, you can log tune again to accommodate for the new airflow characteristics due to the new parts. You can tune with the HD O2 sensors, but only a very small part of the total map since they only work in a narrow range. To better tune the map, get the DJ auto tune setup with WB O2 sensors. Then when done with tuning, take them out and put in plugs. You'll set up the tune to be open loop and will only use O2 sensors for tuning. Of course, you can always just run with the map FM gives you, but you're not really using the PV to even half of it's potential.
-Bill
Originally Posted by Buckinfitch
How do you like the PV? is it somewhat user friendly?,
I just sent my PCV to Fuel Moto to trade for the PV upgrade, he'll be sending thePV back premapped per my mods, although I think the Data Logging is cool, does the PV unit make suggested maps after data log reviews? for tweaking etc.?
Dan,
a.k.a. Buck
Dan, I love the PV and can't see any reason to move to anything else at this point. On the surface it is very user friendly due to the touch screen interface. HOwever, it is also very powerful considering all the ECM tables it can change. The map you get from FM will be a good starting point, but even with your mods every bike is a bit different, and your riding conditions will be different than a dyno. The PV doesn't suggest maps with the data logging. You have VE tables, basically a map of how the engine breathes. When you make logging runs it logs actual VE under real conditions vs the factory table, or the table contained in the map FM will send you. You then incorporate those real world numbers and adjust the VE table and flash the ECM with the updated map. Then you do it again and again until the changes are minimal. Tuning this way gives the best result with how and where you ride vs a controlled dyno room. Then in the future if you make changes to the bike, you can log tune again to accommodate for the new airflow characteristics due to the new parts. You can tune with the HD O2 sensors, but only a very small part of the total map since they only work in a narrow range. To better tune the map, get the DJ auto tune setup with WB O2 sensors. Then when done with tuning, take them out and put in plugs. You'll set up the tune to be open loop and will only use O2 sensors for tuning. Of course, you can always just run with the map FM gives you, but you're not really using the PV to even half of it's potential.
-Bill
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,148
Likes: 6,171
From: SE Michigan
OK, considering your post, and being in the Detroit area, you are now assigned the task of helping me with this thing. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckinfitch
How do you like the PV? is it somewhat user friendly?,
I just sent my PCV to Fuel Moto to trade for the PV upgrade, he'll be sending thePV back premapped per my mods, although I think the Data Logging is cool, does the PV unit make suggested maps after data log reviews? for tweaking etc.?
Dan,
a.k.a. Buck
Dan, I love the PV and can't see any reason to move to anything else at this point. On the surface it is very user friendly due to the touch screen interface. HOwever, it is also very powerful considering all the ECM tables it can change. The map you get from FM will be a good starting point, but even with your mods every bike is a bit different, and your riding conditions will be different than a dyno. The PV doesn't suggest maps with the data logging. You have VE tables, basically a map of how the engine breathes. When you make logging runs it logs actual VE under real conditions vs the factory table, or the table contained in the map FM will send you. You then incorporate those real world numbers and adjust the VE table and flash the ECM with the updated map. Then you do it again and again until the changes are minimal. Tuning this way gives the best result with how and where you ride vs a controlled dyno room. Then in the future if you make changes to the bike, you can log tune again to accommodate for the new airflow characteristics due to the new parts. You can tune with the HD O2 sensors, but only a very small part of the total map since they only work in a narrow range. To better tune the map, get the DJ auto tune setup with WB O2 sensors. Then when done with tuning, take them out and put in plugs. You'll set up the tune to be open loop and will only use O2 sensors for tuning. Of course, you can always just run with the map FM gives you, but you're not really using the PV to even half of it's potential.
-Bill
Originally Posted by Buckinfitch
How do you like the PV? is it somewhat user friendly?,
I just sent my PCV to Fuel Moto to trade for the PV upgrade, he'll be sending thePV back premapped per my mods, although I think the Data Logging is cool, does the PV unit make suggested maps after data log reviews? for tweaking etc.?
Dan,
a.k.a. Buck
Dan, I love the PV and can't see any reason to move to anything else at this point. On the surface it is very user friendly due to the touch screen interface. HOwever, it is also very powerful considering all the ECM tables it can change. The map you get from FM will be a good starting point, but even with your mods every bike is a bit different, and your riding conditions will be different than a dyno. The PV doesn't suggest maps with the data logging. You have VE tables, basically a map of how the engine breathes. When you make logging runs it logs actual VE under real conditions vs the factory table, or the table contained in the map FM will send you. You then incorporate those real world numbers and adjust the VE table and flash the ECM with the updated map. Then you do it again and again until the changes are minimal. Tuning this way gives the best result with how and where you ride vs a controlled dyno room. Then in the future if you make changes to the bike, you can log tune again to accommodate for the new airflow characteristics due to the new parts. You can tune with the HD O2 sensors, but only a very small part of the total map since they only work in a narrow range. To better tune the map, get the DJ auto tune setup with WB O2 sensors. Then when done with tuning, take them out and put in plugs. You'll set up the tune to be open loop and will only use O2 sensors for tuning. Of course, you can always just run with the map FM gives you, but you're not really using the PV to even half of it's potential.
-Bill
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,237
Likes: 61
From: Albany, OR
There are experts on this thread that know a LOT more than I do. Just post your questions.
Supporter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,870
Likes: 4,083
From: Taylortucky, MI
That was my response to Buck's inquiry in a PM. I have learned everything from this thread. The first thing I did was read the whole thing. There are some links to external documents in here that also give guidance. I just followed those and asked some questions along the way. Coming from the PCV world it was a bit of a curve to grok VE tables and such, but once you understand the process of tuning is easy and repetitive. There are more advanced things you can do based on how you are running (open vs. closed loop) with bias tables and such, but I haven't gone there and don't plan too. I will be running in open loop anyway with a set AFR table now that my VE tables are basically stable. I never had an issue with spark knock, so I didn't make any changes to the advance tables.
There are experts on this thread that know a LOT more than I do. Just post your questions.
There are experts on this thread that know a LOT more than I do. Just post your questions.
but once you understand the process of tuning is easy and repetitive.
"There are more advanced things you can do based on how you are running (open vs. closed loop) with bias tables and such", but I haven't gone there and don't plan too.
Me neither, but if I was running the ź mile I would, but I do plan on and am learning up on this stuff
by reading and asking here on this great forum from folks like you.
i have sent jamie a few emails regarding help and looking at my Ve tables about 3 weeks ago and still no reply. I did get an email shot back saying there is a high volume of emails and would reply when he can...is anyone else having same issue..
HDF Community Team
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 902
Likes: 152
From: Georgia
They are a very busy group but if they haven't responded to your emails, you should call them. They may not have received the emails for some reason. They are busy but they ALWAYS respond.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 17,148
Likes: 6,171
From: SE Michigan
Our phone lines are active from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. central time. During the peak season our phone lines can be extremely busy at times, if you get our automated message stating "all tech and sales lines are currently busy" please try back shortly. We have 6 phone lines and you WILL get a live person from our staff that can answer any questions you have or take your order. It is this personalized, straight forward approach that allows us to provide a level of service you will not find elsewhere. Customers outside of the USA can contact us at 920-423-3309"
http://fuelmotousa.com/contact.htm
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,807
Likes: 7
I just got my Power Vision about 2 hours ago. After talking with Brian at Fuelmoto, and him telling me that Vance and Hines Dresser Duals and Rinehart 4" slip-ons are a very common set up for them.....I'm hoping that all I have to do is flash and go!
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
7 Times Harley-Davidson Chucked Tradition Out the Window
Verdad Gallardo
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Engraved Rebellion: Inside Bundnerbike's Glam Rock II
Verdad Gallardo
10 Motorcycles You Should Never Buy
Joe Kucinski
Supporter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,870
Likes: 4,083
From: Taylortucky, MI
Fuel Moto does have remote support once you get in contact where you hook up via the USB cable and a laptop and they take a look and trouble shoot/adjust, it's pretty cool, I've had the techs at Dynojet remote linked to my bike for adjustments when I was having starting issues with the piggybacked PCV.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,602
Likes: 721
From: Bellevue, NE
Quick question.... Now that I have created a new map based on changes made after 3 data log runs, when I do more data log runs and want to make further changes do I need to make a new value file based on the second map? Or does that original value file work for all future changes?