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Mar 21, 2012 | 07:59 PM

#1991

iclick

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From: Baton Rouge, LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmeiers

Well, this is true for Baggers but Dyna's didn't go TBW until 2012. I still have a cable-throttle on my 2010 Dyna and have the Closed Loop Bias Table set to 700 across the board, per Fuel Moto. I think Softail went TBW in 2011.

I didn't know any non-touring bike had TBW. A friend with a '12 Dyna Switchback has cables.

Mar 21, 2012 | 08:03 PM

#1992

iclick

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From: Baton Rouge, LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by kranky

I am seeing a lot of "requires pro level" in my PV manual. I do not have a Bias table in my version. I'm thinking i need the auto tune to have the "pro level" functionality.

You won't see most tables in WinPV while in the Basic User Level, including Closed-Loop Bias. Go to Setup > Options and change your User Level to "Pro".

Mar 21, 2012 | 08:15 PM

#1993

SGLarry

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Joined: Jun 2006

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From: Pittsburgh, PA

Quote:

Originally Posted by iclick

Do you mean the Closed-Loop Bias table? If so, you'll see it only if you have a cable-throttle bike ('07 and earlier) or one of a very few '08 TBW calibrations. Mine is under "Fuel > Closed Loop".

Some of the confusion is present because Harley is constantly changing their calibrations, so we can't blame the PV for at least some of the arcane rules and configurations that we see.

Mines an "09 tbw and the map that Fuel Moto sent loaded on the PV has the "closed loop" under fuel set at 700 volts also. I thinkk it depends on the map strategy that FM uses to build the map?

Mar 21, 2012 | 08:22 PM

#1994

iclick

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From: Baton Rouge, LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedMan

Lot's of conversations going on. Wanted to give a post tuning update. Set-up is 2011 RKC 103 w/ FM 2-1-2, Jackpots, SE AC, and SE 204 cams. Road today about 40 miles in 86 deg. heat. Scoot ran great, no decel popping, very strong throughout the RPM range. However, I noticed two things, one of which concerns me. First, I noticed that my idle MAP hovered around 40ish. My understanding is that at idle, the bikes idle MAP should be around 30ish. Don't know if this is an issue or not.

Mine runs around 37-38 at idle.

Quote:

Second, bike ran very hot, at least relative to history and expectations. I got caught is a couple of slow-downs around traffic lights on my way into the country, and the ET quickly rose to 280, and even after running for a while at 55-60 mph, temp never dropped below 266. In fact, slowing down to 40 mph for speed zones would send the ET right back up to about 275. Yes, it was a hot day here, but this seems to be too hot ET. I have one of those fork mounted air foils which I just put on, so this may have something to do with it. I am going to remove this and see if it helps, but I would appreciate any feedback on the 2 issues anyone can offer, especially the excessive ET.

That's hotter than my bike would normally run. We haven't hit 86° yet but in summer (90-95°) I usually see 225° at slow highway speeds (50-60mph). I've made several rides in the low-80's recently and ET has been running around 215-220° at these speeds, and last Saturday it went up to 285° once in 15-20 min. of interstate gridlock (mostly in first gear). Once it heats up above normal it won't go back down where it was before, so if I'm running 215° then hit traffic and ET goes up to say 280° it might only go down to ~230° once I get rolling again. I've never figured that out. Do you have an oil cooler installed?

By "air foil" do you mean the type that mounts to the outside of the forks (58121-85B)? If so I don't know if they adversely affect cooling, but I had them on my old RK Evo and oil temps almost never exceeded 180° even in summer traffic. I have lowers on the '07 SG that are supposed to help a bit, and I did notice a small change after installing them.

Last edited by iclick; Mar 21, 2012 at 08:36 PM.

Mar 21, 2012 | 08:33 PM

#1995

TedMan

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Thanks, Iclick. Yes the 2011 RKC comes stock w/ HD oil cooler. Before I put the cams in, it would run ET around 240-250. I'm more worried about ET (CHT) than oil temps. I don't get caught in traffic much at all, but what really surprised me was the temp going from 266 to 275 when I slowed from about 55 mph to 40 mph for about a minute. That just didn't make sense. When the ET was hot (over 270) I did notice front and rear knock retard kicked in on roll on from 55 mph to 60 mph up small hills, but no KR when ET was cooler. Engine seems to be running strong otherwise, but this heat thing worries me. I have the air foil that mounts under the triple tree. I understand HD recommends taking it off during hot weather, which doesn't make sense to me either, but maybe there is something to it. More opinions/ideas welcome.

TedMan

TedMan

Mar 21, 2012 | 08:44 PM

#1996

iclick

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From: Baton Rouge, LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGLarry

Mines an "09 tbw and the map that Fuel Moto sent loaded on the PV has the "closed loop" under fuel set at 700 volts also. I thinkk it depends on the map strategy that FM uses to build the map?

The map I got from FM originally had 780, which translates into about 14.43:1. Here's a chart from the FM site. I'm a bit confused, as according to this chart 14.68 is 500mv while the TTS manual states that 450mv produces this AFR.

Last edited by iclick; Mar 21, 2012 at 09:21 PM.

Mar 21, 2012 | 09:02 PM

#1997

iclick

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From: Baton Rouge, LA

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedMan

I've had the "Front Fork Air Baffle" (#58520-79TC) on my bike for >5 years and have never taken it off, so I doubt if it adversely affects cooling. In fact, I was under the impression it helped since it channels the air downward toward the engine. I've never heard that it should be removed in hot weather and the instruction sheet doesn't mention it. You may be thinking about the HD soft lowers that they recommend removing when temps exceed 50°F.

I just noticed that you have a 103 and my understanding is that they run hotter than the 96, quite a bit according to some reports, which may be why they install oil coolers as standard equipment on these. Maybe some other 103 owners can report the ETs they're running. A friend who has a Stage II (103/255) Ultra runs fairly sane oil temps, never higher than 230° so far since installing his OTG, but he has no way to monitor ET on his bike.

The 255 cams are supposed to run hotter than most performance grinds, I presume because of the early intake close of 25°, but I don't see any meaningful increases since installing them three years ago.

I would get a grip on the detonation you're seeing in your logs, although if you don't hear it I wouldn't think it would be enough to affect cooling since the KR function is dealing with it. Uncontrolled detonation can cause overheating, though, as well as produce more dire effects.

Mar 21, 2012 | 09:28 PM

#1998

TedMan

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Thanks again, Iclick. The pinging I mentioned was intermittent and only accelerating up a hill where load goes up. Flat ground never pinged, no matter how hot. I have heard that the SE 204 can be difficult to tune, but don't know why. I will watch KR more closely next time. Won't get a chance to do another ride until Sunday. Will report back.

TedMan

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Mar 21, 2012 | 10:10 PM

#1999

Lonewolf176

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Joined: Sep 2007

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From: Vancouver Island B.C.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iclick

Does anyone have any thoughts about retarding spark advance when cranking?

Default when cranking is 0 degrees advance. Can't change that. Some people have reduced the timing values in the 750 rpm rows from 50 kpa up.
Sometimes adding a little cranking fuel at that temp will help.

Last edited by Lonewolf176; Mar 21, 2012 at 10:13 PM.

Mar 21, 2012 | 10:27 PM

#2000

Lonewolf176

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Joined: Sep 2007

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From: Vancouver Island B.C.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedMan

I noticed two things, one of which concerns me. First, I noticed that my idle MAP hovered around 40ish. My understanding is that at idle, the bikes idle MAP should be around 30ish. Don't know if this is an issue or not.

It's common to see the 204's idle there. Only way to change that is to change when the ecm reads the map value. That's why on some tuning devices you choose your base map based on the camshaft. You shouldn't have any issues at 40 kpa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedMan

I got caught is a couple of slow-downs around traffic lights on my way into the country, and the ET quickly rose to 280, and even after running for a while at 55-60 mph, temp never dropped below 266. In fact, slowing down to 40 mph for speed zones would send the ET right back up to about 275. I am going to remove this and see if it helps, but I would appreciate any feedback on the 2 issues anyone can offer, especially the excessive ET. Thanks,

I think that those temps are fairly normal. I data log quite a few and will normally see temps of 250-275 running down the highway. The bigger the engine the higher it will be. My only suggestion is to remove some timing in that area and see what happens. It will also help with your pinging.