Power Vision Information Thread
The answers to your questions...
Spark Advance: NEVER. Remember, Log Tuning can never add timing, it only has the ability to reduce timing where spark knock occurs. If you are starting with a map from FuelMoto, I would leave the spark tables alone.
VE Tables: Never smooth the WHOLE table. You can select small areas of cells to smooth, but especially if you have no decel issues, leave the far left column (20kpa) as it is. And also be careful in the idle rpm range. Smoothing the whole table may result in a richer idle, but leaner top end. I prefer to do manual smoothing, making changes to intermediate cells, while keeping the highs "high" and the lows "low".
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,290
Likes: 20
From: Salem, Or
Fierofly,
The answers to your questions...
Spark Advance: NEVER. Remember, Log Tuning can never add timing, it only has the ability to reduce timing where spark knock occurs. If you are starting with a map from FuelMoto, I would leave the spark tables alone.
VE Tables: Never smooth the WHOLE table. You can select small areas of cells to smooth, but especially if you have no decel issues, leave the far left column (20kpa) as it is. And also be careful in the idle rpm range. Smoothing the whole table may result in a richer idle, but leaner top end. I prefer to do manual smoothing, making changes to intermediate cells, while keeping the highs "high" and the lows "low".
The answers to your questions...
Spark Advance: NEVER. Remember, Log Tuning can never add timing, it only has the ability to reduce timing where spark knock occurs. If you are starting with a map from FuelMoto, I would leave the spark tables alone.
VE Tables: Never smooth the WHOLE table. You can select small areas of cells to smooth, but especially if you have no decel issues, leave the far left column (20kpa) as it is. And also be careful in the idle rpm range. Smoothing the whole table may result in a richer idle, but leaner top end. I prefer to do manual smoothing, making changes to intermediate cells, while keeping the highs "high" and the lows "low".
My bike has stock head pipe with cat removed, 3.5 Jackpot mufflers, SE stage 1 breather and SE 204 cams.
[quote=Teardrop;9606497]I agree. Once I got the PV figured out I have been running some log tunes. I was letting it adjust the timing along with the VE tables and after about 6 runs my bike was actually running worse than it was with the canned map from FM.
Now thats a relief. I thought I was the only one with that proplem. After about 5 tuning runs, bike runs terriable and I'd just start over from scratch. The 2 or third seemed to always be the best and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. This is my fourth attempt. So your thinking with the stock OX sensors I should tune VE only. My problem is the map I got from Jamie is actually for a Woods 555 cam cause he didn't have one for a S&S 570. I've got no popping at all and it keeps setting a rich code till about the 2nd tune run. I'm worried about the spark advance not being correct for the S&S cam.
Now thats a relief. I thought I was the only one with that proplem. After about 5 tuning runs, bike runs terriable and I'd just start over from scratch. The 2 or third seemed to always be the best and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. This is my fourth attempt. So your thinking with the stock OX sensors I should tune VE only. My problem is the map I got from Jamie is actually for a Woods 555 cam cause he didn't have one for a S&S 570. I've got no popping at all and it keeps setting a rich code till about the 2nd tune run. I'm worried about the spark advance not being correct for the S&S cam.
For smoothing if I've got a 54.7 (1000rpm)then a 74.0 (1125rpm)then a 55.3 (1250rpm)in the 0 throttle column should I smooth just these three numbers or manually enter a middle number like 55 in these kind of cases
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,290
Likes: 20
From: Salem, Or
What I did was click on the upper most box to the left of the 20 kpa box and right above the 750 rpm box. This will highlight the entire field. I then hit the smooth function and smoothed the entire VE table.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,290
Likes: 20
From: Salem, Or
[quote=Fierofly;9606806]
Jamie had a map for my setup so I believe the timing is correct but for your setup it might not be. I would give them a call maybe they can stear you in the right direction.
I agree. Once I got the PV figured out I have been running some log tunes. I was letting it adjust the timing along with the VE tables and after about 6 runs my bike was actually running worse than it was with the canned map from FM.
Now thats a relief. I thought I was the only one with that proplem. After about 5 tuning runs, bike runs terriable and I'd just start over from scratch. The 2 or third seemed to always be the best and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. This is my fourth attempt. So your thinking with the stock OX sensors I should tune VE only. My problem is the map I got from Jamie is actually for a Woods 555 cam cause he didn't have one for a S&S 570. I've got no popping at all and it keeps setting a rich code till about the 2nd tune run. I'm worried about the spark advance not being correct for the S&S cam.
Now thats a relief. I thought I was the only one with that proplem. After about 5 tuning runs, bike runs terriable and I'd just start over from scratch. The 2 or third seemed to always be the best and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. This is my fourth attempt. So your thinking with the stock OX sensors I should tune VE only. My problem is the map I got from Jamie is actually for a Woods 555 cam cause he didn't have one for a S&S 570. I've got no popping at all and it keeps setting a rich code till about the 2nd tune run. I'm worried about the spark advance not being correct for the S&S cam.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,858
Likes: 217
From: Puyallup Wa.
VE number is maxed out at 127 is that correct? To get more room on VE number you increase the cubic inch number? My fuel moto map is set at 96.7 cubic inch.
What is a acceptable increment to increase the cubic inch number?
From 3000 to 4500 rpm and 50 to 100 kpa is looking like its going to need more room this is the general area thats also pulling timing.
My new exhaust pipe has both size o2 bungs I am starting to consider the pro auto tune but first I need to learn more about it.
What is a acceptable increment to increase the cubic inch number?
From 3000 to 4500 rpm and 50 to 100 kpa is looking like its going to need more room this is the general area thats also pulling timing.
My new exhaust pipe has both size o2 bungs I am starting to consider the pro auto tune but first I need to learn more about it.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
[quote=Fierofly;9606806]
Here's how I use the knock sensing capability of the Log Tuner.When I have cells that show "knock" after a data run, instead of lowering the spark I raise the VE. Since generally the knock is occuring outside of a closed loop region, the O2 sensors are not capable of calculating what the VE should be in that region.
First I don't bother screwing with any knock readings lower than .5. And then for each knock reading from .5-1.5 I raise the VE in that cell by 1%. From 1.5-2.5 I raise it another 1% and so. Then I look at the map in the region that I just adjusted and smooth out the readings so they are gradually higher as the Kpa's and RPMs increase. Then I ride and log.
Generally one or 2 datalogs and tuning using this approach will get the knock sensor readings below .5. Once the readings are generally gone or minor, I turn the knock sensor off and then you will feel a significant increase in seat power and smoothness. That's my approach to using the knock sensor readings in the log tuner.
The only time I go back and reduce the spark advance is if a cell is already at 127.5 and can't be raised any higher, then I go back and lower the spark advance by a digit until the knock sensor reads less than .5. There are only 2-3 cells on my map at this high of a level.
I would be interested in other viewpoints on my tuning approach regarding knock sensor readings. Its seems to be working very nicely for me in terms of smoother and more powerful performance from the seat.
I agree. Once I got the PV figured out I have been running some log tunes. I was letting it adjust the timing along with the VE tables and after about 6 runs my bike was actually running worse than it was with the canned map from FM.
Now thats a relief. I thought I was the only one with that proplem. After about 5 tuning runs, bike runs terriable and I'd just start over from scratch. The 2 or third seemed to always be the best and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. This is my fourth attempt. So your thinking with the stock OX sensors I should tune VE only. My problem is the map I got from Jamie is actually for a Woods 555 cam cause he didn't have one for a S&S 570. I've got no popping at all and it keeps setting a rich code till about the 2nd tune run. I'm worried about the spark advance not being correct for the S&S cam.
Now thats a relief. I thought I was the only one with that proplem. After about 5 tuning runs, bike runs terriable and I'd just start over from scratch. The 2 or third seemed to always be the best and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. This is my fourth attempt. So your thinking with the stock OX sensors I should tune VE only. My problem is the map I got from Jamie is actually for a Woods 555 cam cause he didn't have one for a S&S 570. I've got no popping at all and it keeps setting a rich code till about the 2nd tune run. I'm worried about the spark advance not being correct for the S&S cam.
Here's how I use the knock sensing capability of the Log Tuner.When I have cells that show "knock" after a data run, instead of lowering the spark I raise the VE. Since generally the knock is occuring outside of a closed loop region, the O2 sensors are not capable of calculating what the VE should be in that region.
First I don't bother screwing with any knock readings lower than .5. And then for each knock reading from .5-1.5 I raise the VE in that cell by 1%. From 1.5-2.5 I raise it another 1% and so. Then I look at the map in the region that I just adjusted and smooth out the readings so they are gradually higher as the Kpa's and RPMs increase. Then I ride and log.
Generally one or 2 datalogs and tuning using this approach will get the knock sensor readings below .5. Once the readings are generally gone or minor, I turn the knock sensor off and then you will feel a significant increase in seat power and smoothness. That's my approach to using the knock sensor readings in the log tuner.
The only time I go back and reduce the spark advance is if a cell is already at 127.5 and can't be raised any higher, then I go back and lower the spark advance by a digit until the knock sensor reads less than .5. There are only 2-3 cells on my map at this high of a level.
I would be interested in other viewpoints on my tuning approach regarding knock sensor readings. Its seems to be working very nicely for me in terms of smoother and more powerful performance from the seat.
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Joe Kucinski
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
[QUOTE=Heatwave;9608468]
Here's how I use the knock sensing capability of the Log Tuner.When I have cells that show "knock" after a data run, instead of lowering the spark I raise the VE. Since generally the knock is occuring outside of a closed loop region, the O2 sensors are not capable of calculating what the VE should be in that region.
First I don't bother screwing with any knock readings lower than .5. And then for each knock reading from .5-1.5 I raise the VE in that cell by 1%. From 1.5-2.5 I raise it another 1% and so. Then I look at the map in the region that I just adjusted and smooth out the readings so they are gradually higher as the Kpa's and RPMs increase. Then I ride and log.
Generally one or 2 datalogs and tuning using this approach will get the knock sensor readings below .5. Once the readings are generally gone or minor, I turn the knock sensor off and then you will feel a significant increase in seat power and smoothness. That's my approach to using the knock sensor readings in the log tuner.
The only time I go back and reduce the spark advance is if a cell is already at 127.5 and can't be raised any higher, then I go back and lower the spark advance by a digit until the knock sensor reads less than .5. There are only 2-3 cells on my map at this high of a level.
I would be interested in other viewpoints on my tuning approach regarding knock sensor readings. Its seems to be working very nicely for me in terms of smoother and more powerful performance from the seat.
If just looking at tuning outside of the close loop area, nice idea to find what the motor likes. Are you setting your AFR down in the 13.* range to start with, and then adding VE as necessary?
In closed loop range, I'd prefer to put my priority on VE first, then alter spark as needed
Here's how I use the knock sensing capability of the Log Tuner.When I have cells that show "knock" after a data run, instead of lowering the spark I raise the VE. Since generally the knock is occuring outside of a closed loop region, the O2 sensors are not capable of calculating what the VE should be in that region.
First I don't bother screwing with any knock readings lower than .5. And then for each knock reading from .5-1.5 I raise the VE in that cell by 1%. From 1.5-2.5 I raise it another 1% and so. Then I look at the map in the region that I just adjusted and smooth out the readings so they are gradually higher as the Kpa's and RPMs increase. Then I ride and log.
Generally one or 2 datalogs and tuning using this approach will get the knock sensor readings below .5. Once the readings are generally gone or minor, I turn the knock sensor off and then you will feel a significant increase in seat power and smoothness. That's my approach to using the knock sensor readings in the log tuner.
The only time I go back and reduce the spark advance is if a cell is already at 127.5 and can't be raised any higher, then I go back and lower the spark advance by a digit until the knock sensor reads less than .5. There are only 2-3 cells on my map at this high of a level.
I would be interested in other viewpoints on my tuning approach regarding knock sensor readings. Its seems to be working very nicely for me in terms of smoother and more powerful performance from the seat.
In closed loop range, I'd prefer to put my priority on VE first, then alter spark as needed
Last edited by ColoSpgsMark; Apr 2, 2012 at 08:08 AM.
Cruiser
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
From: Morganton, NC
What is the best AFR setting for idle? I was in stop and go traffic yesterday (mostly stop) for Martinsville. Ambient temperature was 70F. My ET seemed to climb faster than I remember last year. It got to 325F in a very short while. Oil Temp stayed below 230F so I was okay but it surprised me. I did add fuel to the idle range over the winter. It is set to 13.8 AFR in the idle part of the map. I thought extra fuel would cool the engine. I am wondering if extra fuel generated more heat. What think thee?