Power Vision Information Thread
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
I've seen some on occasion (<7°) when applying the hardware switch with the PCV-AT, but never as much as you've observed. When checking between 13.0 and 14.6 a couple of weeks ago I saw little ET change from one day to the other after loosely compensating for 10° warmer weather on the second (lean) day. The latter tests with the PV did not follow scientific principles by any means, however. The PCV tests should be valid since everything was relatively the same (road conditions, speed, weather, etc.) and I was switching on the fly, watching the ET as I rode.
Thread Starter
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
450mv would translate to 14.68 AFR or 1.00 Lamba, 730mv would translate to 14.62 AFR or .996 Lamba. The bias is a way to slightly offset the entire AFR table. Changing from 450mv to 730mv would give you an offset of .06 AFR richer on all your AFRs. The stock O2 sensors have a narrow bandwidth so you shouldn't go much more than that.
Last edited by iclick; Mar 22, 2012 at 11:39 AM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,949
Likes: 288
I would let the PV tune-out the detonation, but be wary of false knock events reported by the ECM. Mine does this at one point on the front cylinder only and will show knock regardless of the amount of advance you put in. If it keeps pulling out spark advance at the same amount on a sporadic basis I would put the old values in and just let the knock sensor deal with it in its own way.
In my case it will retard usually not more than 2° for a few seconds at the same point on the graph (~60KPA @ 2200-2500 RPM) but only sporadically, then will revert to normal. I haven't seen any PE spark adjustments come from this odd behavior, but Jamie told me to just leave it alone and don't let the LT tune spark-advance in that area. I now feel like spark-advance is okay and I no longer move the spark tables over to WinPV in the last step of the tuning process.
In my case it will retard usually not more than 2° for a few seconds at the same point on the graph (~60KPA @ 2200-2500 RPM) but only sporadically, then will revert to normal. I haven't seen any PE spark adjustments come from this odd behavior, but Jamie told me to just leave it alone and don't let the LT tune spark-advance in that area. I now feel like spark-advance is okay and I no longer move the spark tables over to WinPV in the last step of the tuning process.
TedMan
Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,549
Likes: 18
From: Upstate SC
I have never seen a specific formula. I have seen multiple charts from different sources. I use an O2 sensor voltage calculator from the TTS software I have to determine the values. I will create a chart and add to the PV tuning basic document.
Note: I added an O2 Sensor voltage chart to the PV tuning basics doc. Click link in my signature to download or view.
Last edited by JustDennis; Mar 22, 2012 at 02:09 PM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,949
Likes: 288
Had an unexpected opportunity to do a ride this afternoon after changing my Lambda to .945 (13.8 AFR) in the cruise range. We had identical weather today; hot (86 deg) and relatively dry, not much wind. Here were my observations:
Scoot ran a little cooler on average. Probably about 5 deg. or so. I split my 45 miles between hiway/freeway and hiway/town. Hiway/Freeway ET basically pegged at 262 deg at average speeds of 60 - 75 mph. Not too bad, but was hoping for better. Hiway/town, bike got hot and went into EITMS in stop light to stop light type of traffic. I was never stopped for more that a minute or so. This still seems too hot too fast, but a little good news is that once I got going again ET dropped much more quickly down to about 275. At that point my ride was over.
Some improvement, but was really hoping for better. The only difference is I had my fork mounted foil off. I will put it back on for the next ride, which will be on Sunday. Unfortuantely, temps around here are only going to be in the mid 60's, so not a great comparison. I am definately getting some pinging in the 2600-3500 RPM and 55 MAP and higher range w/ KR kick in on both cyl. I'm going to remove about 2 deg. timing from this area, as this has been consistent area of KR for the last 2 rides. Would appreciate any further advice/opinions as to heat management. I'm heading out to Sturgis for the 3rd time and am dreading the ET heat potential already. Thx.
TedMan
Scoot ran a little cooler on average. Probably about 5 deg. or so. I split my 45 miles between hiway/freeway and hiway/town. Hiway/Freeway ET basically pegged at 262 deg at average speeds of 60 - 75 mph. Not too bad, but was hoping for better. Hiway/town, bike got hot and went into EITMS in stop light to stop light type of traffic. I was never stopped for more that a minute or so. This still seems too hot too fast, but a little good news is that once I got going again ET dropped much more quickly down to about 275. At that point my ride was over.
Some improvement, but was really hoping for better. The only difference is I had my fork mounted foil off. I will put it back on for the next ride, which will be on Sunday. Unfortuantely, temps around here are only going to be in the mid 60's, so not a great comparison. I am definately getting some pinging in the 2600-3500 RPM and 55 MAP and higher range w/ KR kick in on both cyl. I'm going to remove about 2 deg. timing from this area, as this has been consistent area of KR for the last 2 rides. Would appreciate any further advice/opinions as to heat management. I'm heading out to Sturgis for the 3rd time and am dreading the ET heat potential already. Thx.
TedMan
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
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Just downloaded the latest PV Firmware update 1.0.9-1008 that was just released today. Anyone know what was updated?
Also I have a question regarding the tune edit functionality directly on the PV. I've always made my tune edits off the bike through WinPV however I am curious about the tuning capabilities directly on the PV.
First, there's the pro vs basic PV edit capabilities but the list of optional parameters appears to be the same. I use all the pro functions in WinPV but what is the difference between pro and basic when editing directly on the PV?
Second, there's a closed loop function that can be turned on & off. If you have a map loaded on the bike which is entirely open loop, what exactly would the PV do to the map if you turned "on" the closed loop feature?
Also I have a question regarding the tune edit functionality directly on the PV. I've always made my tune edits off the bike through WinPV however I am curious about the tuning capabilities directly on the PV.
First, there's the pro vs basic PV edit capabilities but the list of optional parameters appears to be the same. I use all the pro functions in WinPV but what is the difference between pro and basic when editing directly on the PV?
Second, there's a closed loop function that can be turned on & off. If you have a map loaded on the bike which is entirely open loop, what exactly would the PV do to the map if you turned "on" the closed loop feature?
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,949
Likes: 288
Update on my perceived heat issue. Wrote Jamie and explained what I was experiencing, and he wrote back the following:
"Hello, for info and recommendations you are welcome to call to discuss. Note: If your running cyl head temp is in the 275 range this would be completely normal. Normal operating temp would be considered 250-325 depending on conditions and variables.
Thank you.........Jamie"
So, I guess my heat is "Normal." When the dealer tells me something is "Normal" I immediately get suspicious. But coming from Jamie, I trust it. So, I am going to ride and not worry about it. I do need to dial in my timing/slight pinging from 2600 rpm to about 3400 rpm in the 55-90 MAP region, but am pleased with the overall performance. I am going to start dialing back 1.5 deg. and see how that does. BTW, does the PV have the capability to just log data then view various data series (e.g. knock retard) to isolate events?
TedMan
"Hello, for info and recommendations you are welcome to call to discuss. Note: If your running cyl head temp is in the 275 range this would be completely normal. Normal operating temp would be considered 250-325 depending on conditions and variables.
Thank you.........Jamie"
So, I guess my heat is "Normal." When the dealer tells me something is "Normal" I immediately get suspicious. But coming from Jamie, I trust it. So, I am going to ride and not worry about it. I do need to dial in my timing/slight pinging from 2600 rpm to about 3400 rpm in the 55-90 MAP region, but am pleased with the overall performance. I am going to start dialing back 1.5 deg. and see how that does. BTW, does the PV have the capability to just log data then view various data series (e.g. knock retard) to isolate events?
TedMan
Last edited by TedMan; Mar 23, 2012 at 07:15 PM.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,466
Likes: 674
From: Vancouver Island B.C.
If it does, remove half of what you see as a starting point. The "fast" knock retard will remove more than needed. Also remember, it is a reaction so you need to look at events prior to the actual knock retard in the data.
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Joe Kucinski
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2010
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I got my PV tuner last week and I'm using a fuel map from FuelMoto. On the map the cruise range is set to 14.5 but the table has (lamda) after it in WinPV. I'm having issues trying to run logtuner to get my VE's dialed in. I have followed the directions located here:
http://www.fuelmotousa.com/PVlogtuner.htm
The only exception is I didn't change the AFR to 14.6. It is set at 14.5 the way it came. When I run logtuner I'm not getting any hits in any cells. Should I be using "Set AFR" or "Set Lamda" in the signals?
I'm stumped at this point as I have tried several different runs with different signals to no avail.
All software versions are current.
http://www.fuelmotousa.com/PVlogtuner.htm
The only exception is I didn't change the AFR to 14.6. It is set at 14.5 the way it came. When I run logtuner I'm not getting any hits in any cells. Should I be using "Set AFR" or "Set Lamda" in the signals?
I'm stumped at this point as I have tried several different runs with different signals to no avail.
All software versions are current.
Road Warrior
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,949
Likes: 288
I got my PV tuner last week and I'm using a fuel map from FuelMoto. On the map the cruise range is set to 14.5 but the table has (lamda) after it in WinPV. I'm having issues trying to run logtuner to get my VE's dialed in. I have followed the directions located here:
http://www.fuelmotousa.com/PVlogtuner.htm
The only exception is I didn't change the AFR to 14.6. It is set at 14.5 the way it came. When I run logtuner I'm not getting any hits in any cells. Should I be using "Set AFR" or "Set Lamda" in the signals?
I'm stumped at this point as I have tried several different runs with different signals to no avail.
All software versions are current.
http://www.fuelmotousa.com/PVlogtuner.htm
The only exception is I didn't change the AFR to 14.6. It is set at 14.5 the way it came. When I run logtuner I'm not getting any hits in any cells. Should I be using "Set AFR" or "Set Lamda" in the signals?
I'm stumped at this point as I have tried several different runs with different signals to no avail.
All software versions are current.
TedMan