Power Vision Information Thread
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 30
Likes: 1
From: Edmonton
ET question
Question for the experts:
I have been using the autotune feature, still a beta I believe.
Did a couple of tuning runs and ended up with a new map.
Loaded this into the ECM and the bike is definetly pulling harder and generally running good.
Only thing I notice is it runs a little hotter.
Same stretch of highway, same speed, same ambient temp, pre auto tune map ET = 239
Second run only differnece was I was travelling the opposite direction on the highway with the autotune map loaded
ET=257
My question is this normal?
If the bike pulls harder should I expect hotter temps?
Thanks in advance
Bike info
2012 , 103 ci
K&N intake, vance and hines staggered shots,
I have been using the autotune feature, still a beta I believe.
Did a couple of tuning runs and ended up with a new map.
Loaded this into the ECM and the bike is definetly pulling harder and generally running good.
Only thing I notice is it runs a little hotter.
Same stretch of highway, same speed, same ambient temp, pre auto tune map ET = 239
Second run only differnece was I was travelling the opposite direction on the highway with the autotune map loaded
ET=257
My question is this normal?
If the bike pulls harder should I expect hotter temps?
Thanks in advance
Bike info
2012 , 103 ci
K&N intake, vance and hines staggered shots,
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
Question for the experts:
I have been using the autotune feature, still a beta I believe.
Did a couple of tuning runs and ended up with a new map.
Loaded this into the ECM and the bike is definetly pulling harder and generally running good.
Only thing I notice is it runs a little hotter.
Same stretch of highway, same speed, same ambient temp, pre auto tune map ET = 239
Second run only differnece was I was travelling the opposite direction on the highway with the autotune map loaded
ET=257
My question is this normal?
If the bike pulls harder should I expect hotter temps?
Thanks in advance
Bike info
2012 , 103 ci
K&N intake, vance and hines staggered shots,
I have been using the autotune feature, still a beta I believe.
Did a couple of tuning runs and ended up with a new map.
Loaded this into the ECM and the bike is definetly pulling harder and generally running good.
Only thing I notice is it runs a little hotter.
Same stretch of highway, same speed, same ambient temp, pre auto tune map ET = 239
Second run only differnece was I was travelling the opposite direction on the highway with the autotune map loaded
ET=257
My question is this normal?
If the bike pulls harder should I expect hotter temps?
Thanks in advance
Bike info
2012 , 103 ci
K&N intake, vance and hines staggered shots,
Yep. Since you're tuning with the factory NB sensors in Closed Loop, the autotune is leaning out the cruise and low load sections of the map to better match the higher (leaner) AFRs in the closed loop section of the map (depending on the map its generally under 3000rpms and under 70kPa).
Therefore the bike is feeling strong and smoother but also generating more heat as the stock O2 sensors lean the bike out to better meet emissions standards. Once the VEs are generating a smooth running bike that you like, you can transfer those same VEs from the autotuned CL map into a new map that has lower AFRs (richer). All other settings in this new OL map should remain the same as the original CL map. This new map won't be running in CL any longer but the bike will feel as strong or stronger and also much cooler due to the lower (richer) AFR settings. Don't change the AFRs in the cells that were in OL all along, only the cells where you were previously running in CL.
Of course, you won't be able to do any further autotuning on this new OL map but it will be running cooler and probably even stronger than the CL map. If you want to do further autotuning, go back to the last CL map to make further refinements to the VE tables using the NB sensors and the Closed Loop AFR map. Which you can then transfer into your OL map.
Last edited by Heatwave; Aug 23, 2012 at 12:41 PM.
Question for the experts:
I have been using the autotune feature, still a beta I believe.
Did a couple of tuning runs and ended up with a new map.
Loaded this into the ECM and the bike is definetly pulling harder and generally running good.
Only thing I notice is it runs a little hotter.
Same stretch of highway, same speed, same ambient temp, pre auto tune map ET = 239
Second run only differnece was I was travelling the opposite direction on the highway with the autotune map loaded
ET=257
My question is this normal?
If the bike pulls harder should I expect hotter temps?
Thanks in advance
Bike info
2012 , 103 ci
K&N intake, vance and hines staggered shots,
I have been using the autotune feature, still a beta I believe.
Did a couple of tuning runs and ended up with a new map.
Loaded this into the ECM and the bike is definetly pulling harder and generally running good.
Only thing I notice is it runs a little hotter.
Same stretch of highway, same speed, same ambient temp, pre auto tune map ET = 239
Second run only differnece was I was travelling the opposite direction on the highway with the autotune map loaded
ET=257
My question is this normal?
If the bike pulls harder should I expect hotter temps?
Thanks in advance
Bike info
2012 , 103 ci
K&N intake, vance and hines staggered shots,
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
Since autotune can't increase spark advance (it can only lower it), then the only way for the engine to run hotter is if its running leaner (assuming all other variable conditions such as ext temps, fuel, riding conditions etc. remain unchanged).
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 30
Likes: 1
From: Edmonton
Yep. Since you're tuning with the factory NB sensors in Closed Loop, the autotune is leaning out the cruise and low load sections of the map to better match the higher (leaner) AFRs in the closed loop section of the map (depending on the map its generally under 3000rpms and under 70kPa).
Therefore the bike is feeling strong and smoother but also generating more heat as the stock O2 sensors lean the bike out to better meet emissions standards. Once the VEs are generating a smooth running bike that you like, you can transfer those same VEs from the autotuned CL map into a new map that has lower AFRs (richer). All other settings in this new OL map should remain the same as the original CL map. This new map won't be running in CL any longer but the bike will feel as strong or stronger and also much cooler due to the lower (richer) AFR settings. Don't change the AFRs in the cells that were in OL all along, only the cells where you were previously running in CL.
Of course, you won't be able to do any further autotuning on this new OL map but it will be running cooler and probably even stronger than the CL map. If you want to do further autotuning, go back to the last CL map to make further refinements to the VE tables using the NB sensors and the Closed Loop AFR map. Which you can then transfer into your OL map.
Therefore the bike is feeling strong and smoother but also generating more heat as the stock O2 sensors lean the bike out to better meet emissions standards. Once the VEs are generating a smooth running bike that you like, you can transfer those same VEs from the autotuned CL map into a new map that has lower AFRs (richer). All other settings in this new OL map should remain the same as the original CL map. This new map won't be running in CL any longer but the bike will feel as strong or stronger and also much cooler due to the lower (richer) AFR settings. Don't change the AFRs in the cells that were in OL all along, only the cells where you were previously running in CL.
Of course, you won't be able to do any further autotuning on this new OL map but it will be running cooler and probably even stronger than the CL map. If you want to do further autotuning, go back to the last CL map to make further refinements to the VE tables using the NB sensors and the Closed Loop AFR map. Which you can then transfer into your OL map.
Just to clarify:
-Keep auto tuning until I am satisfied with the performance
-Build a new OL map and transfer the VE numbers to the new map
How do I determine which cells were open loop all along?
For the new OL map you said richer AFR's, not sure what that # should be?
When I recieved the PV it came with a closed loop map from Fuel Moto would the AFR's from this map be suitable for the new open loop map?
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Texas
I approve of this message
Agghh got it. Autotune.
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Joe Kucinski
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Toledo, OH
For example. I'm still trying to grasp the basics of manually tuning with the PV and WinPV software. All the advanced users experimenting with the new BETA version are discussing features that aren't relevant to me yet. That all should be within it's own sub-forum for BETA PV users.
I would recommend each tuner have it's own sub-forum allowing for multiple topic specific threads pertaining to that specific tuner. Especially because tuning EFI systems aren't going anywhere. Best we organize it now. PLEASE!
Last edited by newmission; Aug 23, 2012 at 08:24 PM.
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
Thanks for the info,
Just to clarify:
-Keep auto tuning until I am satisfied with the performance
-Build a new OL map and transfer the VE numbers to the new map
How do I determine which cells were open loop all along?
For the new OL map you said richer AFR's, not sure what that # should be?
When I recieved the PV it came with a closed loop map from Fuel Moto would the AFR's from this map be suitable for the new open loop map?
Just to clarify:
-Keep auto tuning until I am satisfied with the performance
-Build a new OL map and transfer the VE numbers to the new map
How do I determine which cells were open loop all along?
For the new OL map you said richer AFR's, not sure what that # should be?
When I recieved the PV it came with a closed loop map from Fuel Moto would the AFR's from this map be suitable for the new open loop map?
If you have used autotune to get a smooth running bike with the original AFR settings, you can take this very same map without changing any other settings and raise the richness (lower the lambda value) and apply the same VE values from the closed loop map.
I have an Open Loop map that was developed when my bike was dynotuned. The AFR values are .925 out to 70kPa and down to 3500. The rest of the AFR values are essentially the same as the CL map. Because this map is now outside the operating range of the stock O2 sensors, it will only operate in OL.
The performance in OL is slightly stronger and about 20-25 degrees cooler in the cruising range. The downside is that your fuel economy will be worse. My engine (58mmTB, larger injectors, Woods 408-6 cams and headwork) goes from about 39-40mpg in CL to around 34-35mpg in OL. The benefit is the engine temps go from 250-260 in CL to around 220-230 in OL. The beauty of the PV is that since I have it mounted on my handlebar, I can conveniently use the CL map for better economy on the highway/longer trips and use the OL on really hot days or when I expect to get caught in traffic.
This has been my experience and I can't tell you if you'll have the same experience but I thought you might find it helpful.