Power Vision Information Thread
Cruiser
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 201
Likes: 3
From: Strafford NH
Data Logging
I want to do another Data run, I'm getting a bit more popping on decel than I'd like. I have the Beta Auto tune loaded.
Can someone define a data log run for me? How long do you need to ride?
Do you need to hit certain Rpm's for a period of time?
Can I take it on a longer run where I shut the motor off and continue on?
I just don't know how to do a correct data log run.
I want to do another Data run, I'm getting a bit more popping on decel than I'd like. I have the Beta Auto tune loaded.
Can someone define a data log run for me? How long do you need to ride?
Do you need to hit certain Rpm's for a period of time?
Can I take it on a longer run where I shut the motor off and continue on?
I just don't know how to do a correct data log run.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
How to Datalog
I found this on another forum written by Mayor. It was written in regards to a question about how to do V-tune runs with a TTS tuner. It is also applicable to the PV. I hope he doesn't mind me posting these outstanding directions here.
Found this on another forum and thought it might be helpful to you. It was written for the TTS but the exact same principles apply:
Your particular system is lambda based, so it's important to know a little about MAP when v-tuning. In simplest terms the MAP reading can essentially be viewed as a load cell which translates to the load that the engine is seeing. You can change the MAP reading based on gearing or the rate of acel/decel.
1. Gearing: take for instance, 2,000 rpm in 3rd will have a lower MAP reading than 2,000 rpm in 5th when both are run at a steady state cruise. If you only populate your V-tune histogram which the early gearing (1st-3rd), then you will likely be missing much of the higher MAP cells.
2. Rate of acceleration (and deceleration): before reading further understand that all throttle movements need to be controlled in order to account for the zeroing of the AE and DE tables while v-tuning. Steady state cruising will get a good bit of cells filled, but varying the throttle pressure is needed in order to get the outside cells. This means you need to work the throttle (no sudden movements) at the various rpm ranges in various gears to change the load the engine is seeing (MAP). You also want to do controlled decelerations, meaning that you are holding the throttle during the decel (again, you do not want rapid changes)
here's a v-tune process I posted earlier this year (this will work for both lambda and TPS based v-tunes):
1. short shift the first couple of gears- meaning once you start moving, shift through 1st and 2nd gears to get into 3rd gear (be careful not to overly lug the engine). Gently do roll on's from the low rpm's in third gear to the high rpm's (as high as RPM's as you feel comfortable with...I took mine to 5.5-6k), repeat in 4th, repeat in 5th, repeat in 6th. Make sure you're not accelerating too fast, or you will exceed the maximum MAP. The more you get this area tuned the smoother it will feel (adding some timing might help too, depending on the engine and base cal)
2. Do some controlled decels slowly with pressure on the throttle (what I would call dragging the decel), and also do some fast decels at speed in the upper rpm's to get the far left side cells.
3. find some hills, and short shift through the gears before gently rolling on the throttle. Remember the higher the gear, the higher the MAP. If you find that you're not getting hi-MAP cells in the early RPM's, increase the gearing used.
4. find a road that you can ride fast on (closed course of course
), and wind out 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears with several different throttle ranges (making sure not to accel to fast, or you will exceed the allowable v-tune MAP). The higher the gear the higher the MAP, but the rate of acceleration is a key as well. If you find yourself uncomfortable winding 5th gear out (because a closed course is not available), then increase the rate of throttle pressure running in 3rd and 4th. Running several runns in each gear at various rate of throttle pressure (rate of acceleration) will help cover a wider MAP range (and TPS for the AFR based cals)
5. Ride some hi-way speeds (65-75mph) in 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6ths gears...and do some controlled "passing" accelerations in those gears. Start out at 1,800-2,00 rpms and gently roll on the throttle in each of those gears to about 4,000 rpm, then do controlled decels (holding the throttle back on decel), switch gears and do it again. Each gear will change the amount of MAP (or TPS).
6. Ride some off hi-way speeds (35-45 mph zones) in 2nd, 5th and 6th gears.
7. Gently take 1st and 2nd gears to the upper rpm's using controlled accelerations (meaning- don't just twist the wick).
Found this on another forum and thought it might be helpful to you. It was written for the TTS but the exact same principles apply:
Your particular system is lambda based, so it's important to know a little about MAP when v-tuning. In simplest terms the MAP reading can essentially be viewed as a load cell which translates to the load that the engine is seeing. You can change the MAP reading based on gearing or the rate of acel/decel.
1. Gearing: take for instance, 2,000 rpm in 3rd will have a lower MAP reading than 2,000 rpm in 5th when both are run at a steady state cruise. If you only populate your V-tune histogram which the early gearing (1st-3rd), then you will likely be missing much of the higher MAP cells.
2. Rate of acceleration (and deceleration): before reading further understand that all throttle movements need to be controlled in order to account for the zeroing of the AE and DE tables while v-tuning. Steady state cruising will get a good bit of cells filled, but varying the throttle pressure is needed in order to get the outside cells. This means you need to work the throttle (no sudden movements) at the various rpm ranges in various gears to change the load the engine is seeing (MAP). You also want to do controlled decelerations, meaning that you are holding the throttle during the decel (again, you do not want rapid changes)
here's a v-tune process I posted earlier this year (this will work for both lambda and TPS based v-tunes):
1. short shift the first couple of gears- meaning once you start moving, shift through 1st and 2nd gears to get into 3rd gear (be careful not to overly lug the engine). Gently do roll on's from the low rpm's in third gear to the high rpm's (as high as RPM's as you feel comfortable with...I took mine to 5.5-6k), repeat in 4th, repeat in 5th, repeat in 6th. Make sure you're not accelerating too fast, or you will exceed the maximum MAP. The more you get this area tuned the smoother it will feel (adding some timing might help too, depending on the engine and base cal)
2. Do some controlled decels slowly with pressure on the throttle (what I would call dragging the decel), and also do some fast decels at speed in the upper rpm's to get the far left side cells.
3. find some hills, and short shift through the gears before gently rolling on the throttle. Remember the higher the gear, the higher the MAP. If you find that you're not getting hi-MAP cells in the early RPM's, increase the gearing used.
4. find a road that you can ride fast on (closed course of course
), and wind out 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th gears with several different throttle ranges (making sure not to accel to fast, or you will exceed the allowable v-tune MAP). The higher the gear the higher the MAP, but the rate of acceleration is a key as well. If you find yourself uncomfortable winding 5th gear out (because a closed course is not available), then increase the rate of throttle pressure running in 3rd and 4th. Running several runns in each gear at various rate of throttle pressure (rate of acceleration) will help cover a wider MAP range (and TPS for the AFR based cals)5. Ride some hi-way speeds (65-75mph) in 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6ths gears...and do some controlled "passing" accelerations in those gears. Start out at 1,800-2,00 rpms and gently roll on the throttle in each of those gears to about 4,000 rpm, then do controlled decels (holding the throttle back on decel), switch gears and do it again. Each gear will change the amount of MAP (or TPS).
6. Ride some off hi-way speeds (35-45 mph zones) in 2nd, 5th and 6th gears.
7. Gently take 1st and 2nd gears to the upper rpm's using controlled accelerations (meaning- don't just twist the wick).
so how does the auto tune wide band work if i buy it? on powercommanders it continually works, but powervision flashes the ecm so how does the autotune WIDEBAND sensors work? do you have to leave the powervision connected?
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
From: Europe
knocking/pinging? upon start up and no throttle
Question for the guru's on this great thread.
Recently I developed (I think it is knocking) upon start up for a few seconds. Then the noise goes away. When driving, the bike runs great, but when coming to a stop while down shifting off throttle, the noise is back for a couple of seconds. I am running a map from fuel moto and I have been logging and adjusting the tunes as I have done in the past. Anyone has an idea what to adjust?
Recently I developed (I think it is knocking) upon start up for a few seconds. Then the noise goes away. When driving, the bike runs great, but when coming to a stop while down shifting off throttle, the noise is back for a couple of seconds. I am running a map from fuel moto and I have been logging and adjusting the tunes as I have done in the past. Anyone has an idea what to adjust?
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
Question for the guru's on this great thread.
Recently I developed (I think it is knocking) upon start up for a few seconds. Then the noise goes away. When driving, the bike runs great, but when coming to a stop while down shifting off throttle, the noise is back for a couple of seconds. I am running a map from fuel moto and I have been logging and adjusting the tunes as I have done in the past. Anyone has an idea what to adjust?
Recently I developed (I think it is knocking) upon start up for a few seconds. Then the noise goes away. When driving, the bike runs great, but when coming to a stop while down shifting off throttle, the noise is back for a couple of seconds. I am running a map from fuel moto and I have been logging and adjusting the tunes as I have done in the past. Anyone has an idea what to adjust?
Thread Starter
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
Running closed-loop with WB and the ECM is certainly possible, as it is now being done with the Rev Perf. EMS tuner. What is needed is a module that can allow communication between the ECM and WB's. The downside to the EMS tuner is that you have no means of altering the tune or operation of the unit in any way. I wouldn't be surprised to see DJ offer an optional kit that will work in this manner, only give us the means to tweak our tune as we wish. I wouldn't hold my breath, though, as that's something that will be a long-term goal, if it happens at all.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,454
Likes: 58
From: Graysville, AL
I just ordered a dragula 2-1 pipe to replace my fuelmoto 2-1-2 head pipe and pro touring mufflers. I had my map dialed in just where I like it. Dragon's bike works provided a map but wouldn't my PV adjust everything with a few log runs if I used my dialed in map? Anybody have this setup on their bike?
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,566
Likes: 55
From: Londonderry, NH
I just ordered a dragula 2-1 pipe to replace my fuelmoto 2-1-2 head pipe and pro touring mufflers. I had my map dialed in just where I like it. Dragon's bike works provided a map but wouldn't my PV adjust everything with a few log runs if I used my dialed in map? Anybody have this setup on their bike?
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Joe Kucinski
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,454
Likes: 58
From: Graysville, AL
Ok, I will try both maps but I noticed the map sent from drago's says its for a 2011 cvo and in the engine displacement
says 110. Dont know if that matters or not since I plan on doing some log runs.
says 110. Dont know if that matters or not since I plan on doing some log runs.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
For the 1174 BETA Testers
Just wondering if anyone has tried to do datalogging the old way, before the beta testing began. I was going to try it today to compare the spark adjustments between the 2 versions. When I entered the code 319245, and saved it, I was brought to the autotune screen to enable the autotune. I stopped at this point as I believe that the log produced from the beta can not be read and used by the log tuner software.
What has been your experience?
When I do a data log I can see a little spark knock retard activity (only on the front cyl) that is introduced by the ECM. Do you guys ignore this knock retard or do you try to see no spark retard across the board?
What has been your experience?
When I do a data log I can see a little spark knock retard activity (only on the front cyl) that is introduced by the ECM. Do you guys ignore this knock retard or do you try to see no spark retard across the board?