Power Vision Information Thread
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 33
Likes: 5
From: Montana
Yeah, at this time you need to use the PIN to access Quicktune.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,858
Likes: 217
From: Puyallup Wa.
It's not recommended to use the "Autotune Spark" provision in AT-Basic. As you know, when you select AT-Basic there are various changes made to the tune prior to flashing it to the ECM, one of which is to retard 4 degrees of timing (in an attempt to help the bike "tolerate" being run at stoich / 14.6 AFR).
Even if you nailed down the fuel side of the equation and then wanted to focus exclusively on spark corrections, it's really not fair.....so to speak. So lets say you set the Max_VE_Learn to .01 (if you set to 0 in AT-Basic it effectively shuts off the ENTIRE AT process....fuel and spark, no matter what the other settings are) in order to minimize any changes to fuel, and then set Max_Spark_Learn to 10, you would be recording / correcting spark based on knock activity. The reason I say this is not fair is because the AT-Basic process "set up" the tune that was flashed, and remember the AFR (or lambda) table is set to 14.6 (lambda 1). The amount of knock activity recorded *may not* be present at richer AFR's, which you most likely have defined in your tune (or the tune you'll end up running with) at higher loads / rpm's. Your engine can technically tolerate more spark advance at richer AFR's given the same load condition.
So, even if you temporarily advanced your base tune by 4 degrees, did process above (which again pulls 4 degrees, so now during your AT-Basic process you're running your normal spark tables), and then let AT fix up your spark tables, and then remove the 4 degrees you temporarily added....well....it's just not ideal because you're still running around at stoich during this process.
This is not an issue with AT-Pro, the spark corrections CAN be made independent of fuel, or you can do both at the same time (I recommend nailing down fuel, then address spark).
What we need is a provision for AT-Basic users to tune spark (based on knock activity) independent of fuel corrections, and without the AT-Basic process setting the AFR to stoich 14.6......like AT-Basic (Spark Only).
Even if you nailed down the fuel side of the equation and then wanted to focus exclusively on spark corrections, it's really not fair.....so to speak. So lets say you set the Max_VE_Learn to .01 (if you set to 0 in AT-Basic it effectively shuts off the ENTIRE AT process....fuel and spark, no matter what the other settings are) in order to minimize any changes to fuel, and then set Max_Spark_Learn to 10, you would be recording / correcting spark based on knock activity. The reason I say this is not fair is because the AT-Basic process "set up" the tune that was flashed, and remember the AFR (or lambda) table is set to 14.6 (lambda 1). The amount of knock activity recorded *may not* be present at richer AFR's, which you most likely have defined in your tune (or the tune you'll end up running with) at higher loads / rpm's. Your engine can technically tolerate more spark advance at richer AFR's given the same load condition.
So, even if you temporarily advanced your base tune by 4 degrees, did process above (which again pulls 4 degrees, so now during your AT-Basic process you're running your normal spark tables), and then let AT fix up your spark tables, and then remove the 4 degrees you temporarily added....well....it's just not ideal because you're still running around at stoich during this process.
This is not an issue with AT-Pro, the spark corrections CAN be made independent of fuel, or you can do both at the same time (I recommend nailing down fuel, then address spark).
What we need is a provision for AT-Basic users to tune spark (based on knock activity) independent of fuel corrections, and without the AT-Basic process setting the AFR to stoich 14.6......like AT-Basic (Spark Only).
So the beta version took a step backwards from firmware version 1031 for basic users and the ability to to tune spark?. With version 1031 I used code 319245 but left my whole tune at where I ride made multiple log runs on separate days. When I ran PV log tuner I input .981 and made a tune with log tuner. I then compared the tunes in WinPv and used the timing table made with my fuel at where I ride? It did not pull that much timing from fuel motos base map before I stop spark knocking. Right or wrong but bikes seems to run pretty smooth.
How do/can we control the timing with the beta?
Intermediate
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 33
Likes: 5
From: Montana
So the beta version took a step backwards from firmware version 1031 for basic users and the ability to to tune spark?. With version 1031 I used code 319245 but left my whole tune at where I ride made multiple log runs on separate days. When I ran PV log tuner I input .981 and made a tune with log tuner. I then compared the tunes in WinPv and used the timing table made with my fuel at where I ride? It did not pull that much timing from fuel motos base map before I stop spark knocking. Right or wrong but bikes seems to run pretty smooth.
How do/can we control the timing with the beta?
How do/can we control the timing with the beta?
So did you log spark knock with your AFR at 14.6, or was it "normal"? If you ignored all the things that the Log Tuner tells you to do for the non-embedded AT-Basic process, and simply entered 319245 to log the channels required for Log Tuner to work.....with a normal AFR table.... I don't see a problem with that.
For the record, you can still address spark tuning with the Beta firmware installed, but you should follow this routine
- Flash your "normal tune" into the ECM
- Manually set up the required channels for Log Tuner to work (see LT guide)
- Ride / Log
- Extract required tune items (see LT guide) from your tune with "Save Selected Values" in WinPV
- Process Values and Log(s) in Log Tuner
- Save new corrected values
- "Load All Values" with WinPV into your normal tune
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,858
Likes: 217
From: Puyallup Wa.
ignored all the things that the Log Tuner tells you to do for the non-embedded AT-Basic process, and simply entered 319245 to log the channels required for Log Tuner to work.....with a normal AFR table.... I don't see a problem with that.
Yes exactly....
-------------------------------------
Ok so with beta can manually set up for log tuner to work. Well seems it was easier with 1031.
So now we are back to what you "Dyno Dan" already said in post 3120
" What we need is a provision for AT-Basic users to tune spark (based on knock activity) independent of fuel corrections, and without the AT-Basic process setting the AFR to stoich 14.6......like AT-Basic (Spark Only).
Thank you for your help I think I got now. It has me thinking about saving version 1031. Because I got the bike running good with it. But hope Dynojet considers (spark only) as Dan suggested above. My big concern is not my current tune or set up but my future set up so I want to continue to play with my current tune and learn.
Yes exactly....
-------------------------------------
Ok so with beta can manually set up for log tuner to work. Well seems it was easier with 1031.
So now we are back to what you "Dyno Dan" already said in post 3120
" What we need is a provision for AT-Basic users to tune spark (based on knock activity) independent of fuel corrections, and without the AT-Basic process setting the AFR to stoich 14.6......like AT-Basic (Spark Only).
Thank you for your help I think I got now. It has me thinking about saving version 1031. Because I got the bike running good with it. But hope Dynojet considers (spark only) as Dan suggested above. My big concern is not my current tune or set up but my future set up so I want to continue to play with my current tune and learn.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
Here's the way I have been doing the spark tuning.
Load the tune I am going to use after I am satisfied that the VEs are correctly set via autotune. Presently I only have one cell at 2% Delta - I'm a happy camper.
Getting ready to datalog for spark:
1. Press "Datalog" button
2. Press "Gauges" button
3. Press "Datalog Settings" button
4. Press "Signals" button
5. You are now looking at the data logging global signals. All signals have been added and will record the data when being logged.
6. Press "Exit" button
7. Press "Back" button
8. Press "Gauges" button
9. Select the gauge format you like to use. I use the 6 frame digital display.
10. Choose the signals. This is what I use: RPM, Spark Knock F, Spark Knock R, MAP, Front AFF, Rear AFF
11. Leave this screen displayed and..........
Go for a ride. I ride a bit to get the engine up to it's normal operating temperature.
12. When ready press "Start Log" button
13. After about 30 minutes of varied riding up hills, highways, country roads, press "End Log" button and remember the log file name.
At this point the process is the same as in FW 1031 when using the log tuner. When you get to the point that you Load All Values in WinPV make sure you only check (choose) the Spark Advance Front Cyl and the Spark Advance Rear Cyl items. This will ensure that only the spark tables are modified if needed. After you click OK, immediately SAVE AS different file name. Then compare files to make sure that only the spark tables were changed.
This seems to work for me and I think it gets the job done. As always I am open to suggestions and others opinions.
Load the tune I am going to use after I am satisfied that the VEs are correctly set via autotune. Presently I only have one cell at 2% Delta - I'm a happy camper.
Getting ready to datalog for spark:
1. Press "Datalog" button
2. Press "Gauges" button
3. Press "Datalog Settings" button
4. Press "Signals" button
5. You are now looking at the data logging global signals. All signals have been added and will record the data when being logged.
6. Press "Exit" button
7. Press "Back" button
8. Press "Gauges" button
9. Select the gauge format you like to use. I use the 6 frame digital display.
10. Choose the signals. This is what I use: RPM, Spark Knock F, Spark Knock R, MAP, Front AFF, Rear AFF
11. Leave this screen displayed and..........
Go for a ride. I ride a bit to get the engine up to it's normal operating temperature.
12. When ready press "Start Log" button
13. After about 30 minutes of varied riding up hills, highways, country roads, press "End Log" button and remember the log file name.
At this point the process is the same as in FW 1031 when using the log tuner. When you get to the point that you Load All Values in WinPV make sure you only check (choose) the Spark Advance Front Cyl and the Spark Advance Rear Cyl items. This will ensure that only the spark tables are modified if needed. After you click OK, immediately SAVE AS different file name. Then compare files to make sure that only the spark tables were changed.
This seems to work for me and I think it gets the job done. As always I am open to suggestions and others opinions.
Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Toledo, OH
Hate to put this out there, because I recall seeing this issue already but couldn't find it in a search.
I tried updating to the latest BETA firmware. All was successful right up to the very end when installing the PV Firmware itself. Install said 100%, then everything hung. Now the PV won't go into "PC Link Mode". I just got off the phone with Dynojet and they had me do a hard reset, but still no go.
Any other tricks? Or am I stuck paying for shipping back to Dynojet?
I tried updating to the latest BETA firmware. All was successful right up to the very end when installing the PV Firmware itself. Install said 100%, then everything hung. Now the PV won't go into "PC Link Mode". I just got off the phone with Dynojet and they had me do a hard reset, but still no go.
Any other tricks? Or am I stuck paying for shipping back to Dynojet?
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
I would try and reload the version you were writing over to see if that will work. I know when I do a FW update it takes a short pause before finally going to Link Mode. If that reload works, try a different USB port, and try the update again. Do not touch the computer at all during this process. If that doesn't work, perhaps someone with more knowledge will jump in.
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Intermediate
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: Toledo, OH
One thing we didn't do was install a recovery file.
I called them back for a recovery file, and they said they have yet to update one for the new PV-2. So I wait. :/
I called them back for a recovery file, and they said they have yet to update one for the new PV-2. So I wait. :/
Last edited by newmission; Sep 20, 2012 at 07:39 PM.