Power Vision Information Thread
Cruiser
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
From: Texas
I have mine on order. I didnt go with Fuel Moto, bit too much $$. Hopefully I dont regret that later on. I figure if I dive into tuning a bit I can get it just as good starting with the Dynojet tune. We will find out...
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
96" no big bore yet
AC
Rush Slipons 2.0
HD SE 255 cams
Was hoping to get some insight on what tables affect/reduce the horrible popping.
I made a quick run and the front VE's dropped and the rear VE's went up.
When I exported the data on the road it said 0% average and 10% max. If someone can shine some light on what constitutes "average %" and "max %" it would be great to know.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
If you are getting larger peaks or valley's in you calibration below 60Kpa you may want to try the Charge Dilution Effect tables to smooth/flatten them out. If your calibration does not have these tables exposed simply run the update client and load the newest PV firmware (also update the tune database as well) open up WinPv, load your map and go to Power Vision>Update Tune from PV and it will expose all of the newest tables.
Last edited by stailjim61; Nov 10, 2012 at 02:38 PM.
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 871
Likes: 7
From: Manchester, NH
It could be that the calibration you are using was created before the current firmware incorporated these changes/additions. Each time you do an update to the PV you should also update your cal as a way to check for new features. Then save the cal to keep the changes.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
2007 Heritage Classic
96" no big bore yet
AC
Rush Slipons 2.0
HD SE 255 cams
Was hoping to get some insight on what tables affect/reduce the horrible popping.
I made a quick run and the front VE's dropped and the rear VE's went up.
When I exported the data on the road it said 0% average and 10% max. If someone can shine some light on what constitutes "average %" and "max %" it would be great to know.
96" no big bore yet
AC
Rush Slipons 2.0
HD SE 255 cams
Was hoping to get some insight on what tables affect/reduce the horrible popping.
I made a quick run and the front VE's dropped and the rear VE's went up.
When I exported the data on the road it said 0% average and 10% max. If someone can shine some light on what constitutes "average %" and "max %" it would be great to know.
Also, don't start making other changes until you get your VE's dialed in. Once those are right, then you can start tweaking other things to fine tune.
Last edited by ColoSpgsMark; Nov 10, 2012 at 07:09 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
Average of 0% is indicating that you had equally low and high VE readings - they averaged out equally across your map. Max % is just that, you had some changes as much as 10%. You need to shoot to get your max at 5% or less; ideally with Avg staying around 0.
Also, don't start making other changes until you get your VE's dialed in. Once those are right, then you can start tweaking other things to fine tune.
Also, don't start making other changes until you get your VE's dialed in. Once those are right, then you can start tweaking other things to fine tune.
Lets say my first AT run I'm able to hit 0 - 4500 rpms and out to 60 kpa.
The second AT run I'm only able to hit 0- 3000 rpms and out to 30 kpa.
Third run is same as second run.
Will PV tell me I'm at 5% after the third run? Yes maybe I'm at 5% after 3 runs in the 0 - 3000 rpm range and out to 40 kpa (PV seen enough corrections to say 5% in that area) but what about the rest of the cells that didn't get hit on run 2 and 3? The cells from 3000 - 4500 rpms and from 40 - 60 won't show a change because there's nothing to compare them to (only hit on run #1).
Basically what I'm curious about is exactly what is being compared to what, to come up with the %? Is it derived from the % of correction from the last run and the run prior?
Hopefully the FM guys will be able to explain exactly how this % is being computed and which cells are being used to compute it.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
If that's actually what it means I don't see how it can be very accurate unless one hits the exact same cells for the exact number of times on each AT run.
Lets say my first AT run I'm able to hit 0 - 4500 rpms and out to 60 kpa.
The second AT run I'm only able to hit 0- 3000 rpms and out to 30 kpa.
Third run is same as second run.
Will PV tell me I'm at 5% after the third run? Yes maybe I'm at 5% after 3 runs in the 0 - 3000 rpm range and out to 40 kpa (PV seen enough corrections to say 5% in that area) but what about the rest of the cells that didn't get hit on run 2 and 3? The cells from 3000 - 4500 rpms and from 40 - 60 won't show a change because there's nothing to compare them to (only hit on run #1).
Basically what I'm curious about is exactly what is being compared to what, to come up with the %? Is it derived from the % of correction from the last run and the run prior?
Hopefully the FM guys will be able to explain exactly how this % is being computed and which cells are being used to compute it.
Lets say my first AT run I'm able to hit 0 - 4500 rpms and out to 60 kpa.
The second AT run I'm only able to hit 0- 3000 rpms and out to 30 kpa.
Third run is same as second run.
Will PV tell me I'm at 5% after the third run? Yes maybe I'm at 5% after 3 runs in the 0 - 3000 rpm range and out to 40 kpa (PV seen enough corrections to say 5% in that area) but what about the rest of the cells that didn't get hit on run 2 and 3? The cells from 3000 - 4500 rpms and from 40 - 60 won't show a change because there's nothing to compare them to (only hit on run #1).
Basically what I'm curious about is exactly what is being compared to what, to come up with the %? Is it derived from the % of correction from the last run and the run prior?
Hopefully the FM guys will be able to explain exactly how this % is being computed and which cells are being used to compute it.
-Load Auto Tune and run one or more collection runs.
-Use that data to generate a new calibration.
-Load new calibration into Auto Tune
-Make additional runs and generate new calibrations.
After a few runs, you should start to see the Max % decrease from prior runs as the stored VE values are closer to what the engine actually wants; relying less on O2 sensor feedback/corrections and getting it "right" from the values stored in the calibration.
Last edited by ColoSpgsMark; Nov 11, 2012 at 10:30 PM.
Road Captain
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 569
Likes: 0
From: USA
The reason I brought this up was I read quite a few posts of people making quick joyride type of AT runs and relying on the 5% report as being a good tune. The only way I can see that being a good tune is if they looked at EVERY new tune in WinPVto ensure they were progressively working EVERY cell (or pretty much most of them) throughout the AT runs, from run 1 to run last.
Without knowing how PV calculates the % I don't really feel comfortable relying on the % as the tune being good or finished. I guess I will keep looking at each ve table comparison until someone sheds some light on this.
And yes, all mine are based on the previous run. AT run...correct...load corrected...repeat.
Last edited by stailjim61; Nov 11, 2012 at 11:28 PM.
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 580
Likes: 0
From: Colorado
You're missing the point. If that's true then the % stated at the end of a run is totally meaningless. If it's basing the % on the difference between the last run and run prior (the loaded tuning cal) that's a crappy tuning method. Like I said earlier, the only way that would come even remotely close to being accurate is if the exact same cells, rpm's, map, and number of hits matched EVERY time from run 1 to run last. Then I can see it being a progressive thing happening with ve's dialing in. If the AT runs aren't progressive, and hitting the same areas every time, the % will be meaningless, the way you're describing it. Maybe there's more going on with this % calculation that has been divulged. Hopefully so.
The reason I brought this up was I read quite a few posts of people making quick joyride type of AT runs and relying on the 5% report as being a good tune. The only way I can see that being a good tune is if they looked at EVERY new tune in WinPVto ensure they were progressively working EVERY cell (or pretty much most of them) throughout the AT runs, from run 1 to run last.
Without knowing how PV calculates the % I don't really feel comfortable relying on the % as the tune being good or finished. I guess I will keep looking at each ve table comparison until someone sheds some light on this.
And yes, all mine are based on the previous run. AT run...correct...load corrected...repeat.
The reason I brought this up was I read quite a few posts of people making quick joyride type of AT runs and relying on the 5% report as being a good tune. The only way I can see that being a good tune is if they looked at EVERY new tune in WinPVto ensure they were progressively working EVERY cell (or pretty much most of them) throughout the AT runs, from run 1 to run last.
Without knowing how PV calculates the % I don't really feel comfortable relying on the % as the tune being good or finished. I guess I will keep looking at each ve table comparison until someone sheds some light on this.
And yes, all mine are based on the previous run. AT run...correct...load corrected...repeat.
2007 Heritage Classic
96" no big bore yet
AC
Rush Slipons 2.0
HD SE 255 cams
Was hoping to get some insight on what tables affect/reduce the horrible popping.
I made a quick run and the front VE's dropped and the rear VE's went up.
When I exported the data on the road it said 0% average and 10% max. If someone can shine some light on what constitutes "average %" and "max %" it would be great to know.
96" no big bore yet
AC
Rush Slipons 2.0
HD SE 255 cams
Was hoping to get some insight on what tables affect/reduce the horrible popping.
I made a quick run and the front VE's dropped and the rear VE's went up.
When I exported the data on the road it said 0% average and 10% max. If someone can shine some light on what constitutes "average %" and "max %" it would be great to know.
__________________
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com
Jamie Long / Fuel Moto USA
The USA's Leader V-Twin EFI & Performance www.fuelmotousa.com
Contact 920-423-3309
Email jamie@fuelmotousa.com